Since the OP was eliciting opinions, and I'm sure she expected there to be a lot of different ones, and since nobody here seems to be yelling yet (please don't!), I'm going to add one more idea.
If a person wants to keep a pet tiger or other specified undomesticated animal in my state, they have to have a license and meet certain requirements as far as enclosures, safety devices, etc. showing they can keep it safely without it presenting a risk of harm to humans or property (such as livestock or pets). It isn't because we're picking on tigers. It's because biologists and wildlife folk tell us tigers are big, strong, and dangerous.
Pit bulls may be trainable to be non-dangerous to livestock and humans - heck, maybe tigers are too - but they are bred to be strong-jawed enough, well-muscled enough, and to have a "gaming" temperament such that they present a danger to livestock. Animal aggression in the breed is expected (if not tolerated) even in the show ring That kind of an animal needs to be treated like a tiger. So do Dogo Argentinos who were bred to bring down runaway slaves and have certainly killed their fair share of infants and adults.
I really would feel better about this if more pit bull owners were saying things like, "we have a real problem with our breed...let's find a way to handle it" instead of using the "they're so lovable...you're just prejudiced" approach. I have seen breeders tout the line (IDK where they got it, but apparently some authority on temperament) "highly protective of his owners and the owner's property, it will fight an enemy to the death..." Really? Is that something you want to be advertising to people? Who exactly is the target demographic for THAT line? Responsible owners or tough guy wannabes?
If my community offers the vote to me, I'll support breed specific legislation because all dogs are not created equal.
Proper Pitbull owners share their experiences with proper dogs, they don't blame a whole breed because someone led dogs astray. There isn't a problem with this breed, there is a problem with humans.
There is a major flaw with BSL, it has never proven to make any change as far as statistics and such. Jezz, even Ohio is lifting their BSL ban lol I would support proper education over banning a breed. I mean we all know when you tell a society they can't have something, the responsible ones will follow the rules. Those are the people you don't have to worry about. Those are the people paying through their noses for insurance and tags and licences to own their pet they have had for years. Those are the people having to give up their dogs to be euthanized in shelters, kids losing the dog they grew up with because families can't afford million dollar insurance or are too fearful that authorities will force their way into their homes and take their dogs. These people live in fear, house pets are sent to gas chambers. And those who don't give two flying flutes about the law? Those are the ones that are problems, those are the ones training these dogs for bad, the ones not training their dogs period and the ones who shouldn't own any animal because they don't have a handle on their own lives or the education to respect and treat an animal properly. These people don't care about your BSL, take their dog... they'll just get another one because the dog is property to them, not a pet. They don't leash their dogs, they don't research them, they just don't care. Meanwhile BSL tears families apart and those responsible for bringing BSL are not fizzed one bit. I'll tell you one thing, BSL passes here and they'll take my dog over my cold dead body. She's my child just as much as my son and daughter. I swore to protect her, and I will.
I mean how would you feel if someone came to your home and made you hand over your pet because someone else doesn't like them? That's like banning fish from Thailand, and taking all your Bettas and flushing them while you have no say. Seems kinda cruel. Bettas are aggressive fish and people do fight them for sport... and they are one of the most abused fish in the world.
And chances are... those "breeder" are no better than the trash they are trying to sell their dogs to. To display your dogs in such a manner only brings in one kind of clientele. Those are the breeders with "low rider" Pitbulls registered by the American Back Yard Breeder Club (ADBA) that display them on their free cookie cutter websites. No pedigree with the AKC, just bred for muscle and color, not health or temperament. Not that I would buy a dog, but I certainly wouldn't get one from a shady breeder either lol Just by your post, red flags and bells when off haha
Here, home breedersof pitbulls (you know, the ones who party all the time then have their dogs breed then sell the pups) sell their pups for 500-1500. THAT I can compare to the shady breeders. THAT is so stupidly priced for a "look at these "pure bred" dogs" dumb-person-breeder. Anyways, here, the shelter has the following dogs (or mixed breeds): German Shephards, Pitbulls, Collies, and Mastiffs. And it costs MAYBE 200-300 tops, to adopt a cutie who needs a home. I've seen more pitbulls in this shelter than any other breed. o.o
Wow. I like that:
"I mean how would you feel if someone came to your home and made you hand over your pet because someone else doesn't like them? That's like banning fish from Thailand, and taking all your Bettas and flushing them while you have no say. Seems kinda cruel. Bettas are aggressive fish and people do fight them for sport... and they are one of the most abused fish in the world." it's true though
Problem with the tiger comparison: Dogs are domestic (the first domesticated animal, in fact) and tigers aren't. They coevolved with humans to work with and live with us.
Tigers in the wild view humans as prey.
Which is the same for tigers. Some owners go "I love him like my baby, I tuck him in..." and so on, and forget it is still a wild animal. We have not domesticated tigers as well as dogs, they are still wild and need to be kept carefully - like Granberry mentioned with the permits, enclosures, inspections, etc.
Wild animals need to be in sanctuaries or zoos. Period. End of story.
Except dogs still have their instincts Gotta remember - even if you baby your dog, remember he/she is a dog. My mom did that with her ankle biter rat/cat/dog/thing. And my dad's dog too!! And who does my dad's dog listen to the best? me -.- because it's a dog. Not my child. lol! That and I exercise the beagle in her :3
Lol. I work at a doggie daycare and boarding kennel and I usually take care of the small dogs. They are definitely not as well mannered as the big dogs because a lot of their owners don't view them the same way they would a big dog. Some don't even know their own names!
My dog's a 17 pound cockapoo but we treat her like a dog rather than a human and therefore she's well behaved and not spoiled.
Pitluvs, I hear what you're saying, and I think you point out some valid considerations very well. I find especially persuasive the fact that Ohio lifted its BSL due to ineffectiveness.
But when you said, "I would support proper education over banning a breed", I just can't go with you there because I don't believe "proper education" works well enough for me to feel my kids are safe, my pets are safe, or my livestock is safe from dogs as I've described.
Is it fair? Nope. It isn't fair to good responsible owners. But until breed clubs or somebody can find a way to handle this problem either by generations of selective breeding to weed out traits that we as a community don't deem safe or better control of these awful breeders, then government legislation is the only remedy.
And BTW in my state we most certainly do have "FSL" , i.e., fish specific legislation. :) There are many types of fish that are illegal to sell, dump in ponds or lakes, etc. because we deem them dangerous to native livestock.
BTW, if I come off as abrasive, please forgive me. I am a retired lawyer, and I never have anything interesting to talk to people about any more because my kids quit listening to me when they went to college and my husband has never listened to me, so I'm just really enjoying this discussion. But I promise I've said my piece now, and I'll zip it.
Last edited by Granberry; 03-12-2012 at 01:37 PM.
hehe should see when I "baby" my dad's 60 pound beagle/basset :3 I literally flip her over and cradle her like a baby she doesn't even care.
Hey! Which reminds me. Why do people get rid of their dogs when the dog bites their kid? My dad's dog is SO gentle, GREAT with babies... but she is at her end with my 6 year old niece, who sits on her, pulls her tail, pulls her ears, smacks her, pulls her fur and skin, etc We warned my niece, that she'll nip her one day and we won't feel sorry. Kids need to learn dogs have boundaries too -.- But some people use the excuse of "it bit my baby!" stop babying the dog and dump it at some spca or shelter without looking at the entire situation.
And Granberry, you're allowed to debate :p debating is good for ya!!! lol. Everyone has an opinion, which is good, and sets us apart from each other
I don't know. A lot of people don't understand dogs, or animals in general. They either anthropomorphize them or are like "it's just a fish, rat, dog, bird, etc" and don't really care about them.
My mom always told me and my sisters to not play roughly with our dog because if she even bit someone (like a neighbor, etc) by accident or wanting to play we might have to euthanize her. My 4 year old cousins were chasing her around once and screaming and just being annoying and she growled at them and everyone was so concerned about my cousins even though she didn't do anything to them. She just told them to back off.
People shouldn't get pets if they don't understand their mental, emotional, and physical needs, as well as their basic behavior.
And I know that in USA ONE offense by a dog can = death or the dog needs to be out of that state by a certain time frame or else it is killed. It's pretty harsh!! Here in Canada (or at least Alberta) it is not as bad. Yes, a dog bites someone. But that person usually is apologized to, she might file a report or sue, and that's that. Only a small handful of people will ask for that dog to be killed - which are the ones I say "P--- Off!" because it's a dog. Some are rehabilitated, or in the course of rehabilitation. You cannot resocialize a dog WITHOUT SOCIALIZATION!!! lol.
The only time my dad's dog bit me, was when we were playing and she got too rough. Then I tell her "stop" and she releases automatically. She won't wrestle with anyone but three of us (all adults) which is good gotta know your doggie!!
Or how about this funny situation... A deemed dangerous Great Dane lived in or area. I offered to get my neighbor's dog (jack russel) back when he ran off. He was swimming in the icky man-made pond, and wouldn't come out. That great dane sauntered up (ooo scary), looked at the dog, at me, at the dog. Went in after the dog (kinda surprised me and made me a little scared) and end up herding the russel out of the water for me x.x Yeah. Scary doggy =D Rumors + experience + breed = scared people.