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Old 03-12-2012, 03:43 PM   #51 
Sena Hansler
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Hey! then here a question, Inga. CAN a 3 year old rottie be trained, or rehabilitated? I say yes. My brother says no, because they are a "stubborn" breed, therefore what they learned before the age of 1 is set into them and there is no way to fix what they were taught. I.e a 3 year old rottie who was taught to fight would have to be euthanised because there is "no way" they can be helped. And I seriously am going to try (and probably will knowing my persistance) to show rotties after age 1 or whatever CAN be readopted, CAN be rehabilitated, and CAN be helped out of problems like fear, aggression, bad training, etc.

Or is it just PEOPLE who won't take a chance with a strong breed?
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:46 PM   #52 
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Originally Posted by Sena Hansler View Post
Hey! then here a question, Inga. CAN a 3 year old rottie be trained, or rehabilitated? I say yes. My brother says no, because they are a "stubborn" breed, therefore what they learned before the age of 1 is set into them and there is no way to fix what they were taught. I.e a 3 year old rottie who was taught to fight would have to be euthanised because there is "no way" they can be helped. And I seriously am going to try (and probably will knowing my persistance) to show rotties after age 1 or whatever CAN be readopted, CAN be rehabilitated, and CAN be helped out of problems like fear, aggression, bad training, etc.

Or is it just PEOPLE who won't take a chance with a strong breed?
Do it and prove everyone wrong. Save that dog!
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:56 PM   #53 
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It seems like everyone agrees the problem is some owners, not the dogs. But recognizing that is useless unless you have a way to FORCE people to change, and you can't. You can just control access to the kinds of dogs they're allowed to have. We can force them to keep their pets confined or to surrender them.

Can anyone here offer a better solution? A solution that doesn't depend on the wisdom of people who are specifically buying dogs advertised to "fight to the death"? Because you can't educate people out of their preferences in something like that.

Until you can offer a solution that is enforceable and likely to keep our cattle, house pets, and children safe, I don't understand how you can oppose laws which specifically address control of dogs (or tigers!) that threaten them.

Personally, I am really critical of the AmStaff and other pit bull-ish breed clubs. They aren't stepping in to change the breed, i.e., change the AKC standard to reduce the size and strength of the various pit bull breeds body and jaw, or to add temperament standards that are acceptable (i.e., animal aggression is not expected to be part of the breed). Breed clubs all pound it into our head not to buy a Cavalier without some certification for heart murmurs, rottweilers without a hip certification, other dogs without an eye certification. Why the heck aren't the bully breed clubs developing some method of certifying stable temperament?

PS: Just to clarify, one doesn't have to support a complete ban of pit bulls to support breed specific legislation. You can support requirements that pit bulls aren't allowed at dog parks, that they have to have a higher fence, etc.

Last edited by Granberry; 03-12-2012 at 04:12 PM. Reason: add a ps
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:56 PM   #54 
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Sensa - I think it would depend on the individual dog. Im sure some can be come around, but I also think that some are just too far gone. Just like humans from absuive cildhood homes. Some will grow up and be able to live and love and some will grow up and continue the cycle of violence.

There are alot of pit bulls that frequented the dog park in Fairbanks and as a general rule, my dog (who is NOT in the most dangerous beed list) is the one most likely to cause trouble. It kinda amazes me when he gets those "dangreous dogs "to roll over into the submissive pose especially considering he is only 25 pounds.

Last edited by Tikibirds; 03-12-2012 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:59 PM   #55 
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If every owner of these breeds was that careful... You would never hear about them.
Inga, I wish so hard that every owner of these breeds (or really ANY breed) took as much care as you do to ensure -everyone's- safety.

Your grip on reality is wholly refreshing.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:02 PM   #56 
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Termato - I would. If I DARE see that poor co-owned beaten rottie in the shelter he is MINE I'll find a place that allows dogs. He needs a real home, not being co-owned, or beaten poor boy. He's about 2-3 years old now anyways.

Granberry, that is true. I personally think ANY breed that is bred should come with a temperament certificate.

Tiki I agree... some are far gone. But there is this silly "ALL rotties pass blahblahblah age is too far gone to bring back" but, you can teach old dog new tricks.

My dad's dog is 6 I taught her off leash (HAHA myth of "beagles and bassets run away offleash"), and the words "ready" and "go" plus she knows if she runs off I walk away. And she doesn't like it so she stays near :3
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:12 PM   #57 
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Originally Posted by Granberry View Post
It seems like everyone agrees the problem is some owners, not the dogs. But recognizing that is useless unless you have a way to FORCE people to change, and you can't. You can just control access to the kinds of dogs they're allowed to have. We can force them to keep their pets confined or to surrender them.

Can anyone here offer a better solution? A solution that doesn't depend on the wisdom of people who are specifically buying dogs advertised to "fight to the death"? Because you can't educate people out of their preferences in something like that.

Until you can offer a solution that is enforceable and likely to keep our cattle, house pets, and children safe, I don't understand how you can oppose laws which specifically address control of dogs (or tigers!) that threaten them.
1) Outlaw puppy mills and make it illegal for pet stores to sell puppies. Also regulate breeders so that only reputable breeders (that test the parents genetics, only choose parents that are healthy and have good temperaments, and socialize the puppies) are the ones breeding and backyard breeders are deterred from breeding.

This will force people to either adopt from shelters/rescues or buy from good breeders. These sources will take the dogs back if there are any problems, and will take the responsibility of euthanizing dogs that are vicious. BYBs and puppy mills don't take genetics into consideration either, so they are churning out dogs that are genetically predisposed to aggression for the sake of profit.

People who adopt from shelters or take the time to research breeds and breeders aren't going to be making impulse buys, and the shelters and breeders will ask these potential owners many questions about their lifestyles, etc to make sure that they are prepared for that particular dog.

2) Also, as I said in an earlier post, it should be illegal for people with a history of animal abuse or certain crimes (drug dealers, violent crimes, etc) to own pets and potentially dangerous animals like dogs in particular.

THIS is how I think this controversy should be managed. Breed specific legislation is not the answer. Someone could get a husky or a labrador and make it vicious if they didn't have access to pit bulls.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:13 PM   #58 
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The UKC has a specific standard for Pokets. This is a Pitty that is small. 15 inches seems average, but many are 14 inches or shorter. You want less power? You can't breed for that in a pit bull. These dogs were originally bred to go against bulls, just like the bulldog.
The myths about their jaws are just that, myths. Their jaws do not lock. Yes. they are a powerful breed because they once had purpose. They were a working dog. Like the Rotty. Like the Doberman. Like the German Shepard. Like the Bulldog. It is unfair to say that the only options are to breed them down or put them down. Why not put stipulations in place that say all private owners must fix their pit unless medically proven the dog has an allergic reaction to anesthesia? Why not confiscate and rehome any dog that is kept without following such a stipulation? There is no real logical reasoning to punish the breed. None. There is no need or reason to punish responsible owners. None.

Has the German Shepherd been bred down to be less powerful? No and they use these dogs in law enforcement. It isn't fair or right.

Edit:
Also, these dogs pass the temperament tests with higher grades and more often than other breeds do.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:18 PM   #59 
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Its the amount of damage the pit bulls can inflict-
True that other breeds may bite more people/animals-but pit bulls can kill and/or do serious damage on the human body and other animals
How many times have you heard about other breeds that killed a human or ripped their arm off or tore another animal to shreds....rarely do you hear of this..it happens but rarely....
Pit bulls are powerful animals and once they start the attack-its hard if not impossible to stop them.
How many times do you hear after a pit bull attack "My pit bull has never bit or showed aggression" with a pit bull it only takes one bite-one attack...it only takes one attack...death is forever...saying I am sorry...can not bring the dead back, replace the limb ripped from the body, cover the physical and mental scars produced.....
What is more important.....life, limb, physical/emotional scars or a Dog......

Why do I dislike this breed.......YOU, have a child thrown in your arms DEAD..... with their guts ripped and hanging from their lifeless bloody body by a parent screaming demanding that you bring them back to life after the family pet pit bull attacks for the very first time......

You-go and tell a parent that their child is DEAD or that the arm can't be reattached or the facial/body scars will be life long and need countless surgeries....you comfort that injured child/adult or the survivor of the incident that come to you with the night terrors and life long pain and loss......

I don't hate this breed....I hate what this breed can do to the human body....Its sad that some are blinded by what this breed can do and make excuses or try to place blame on bad owners, training...etc......

This is a powerful and beautiful animal-but it can kill.....
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:21 PM   #60 
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Any dog can kill. Maybe we should outlaw dogs.
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