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Old 02-20-2013, 02:16 PM   #591 
FishyFishy89
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Dogs are NOT naturally aggressive towards humans! What makes them aggressive towards humans is, in fact, humans. If a human being is abusive towards a dog, a dog is eventually going to act out towards the aggression. If a human is consistently breeding human aggressive dogs, it is the human's fault. If the human is ENCOURAGING human aggressive behavior, it is the human's fault. So no, it is never the dog's fault, it is always the human's fault.


Dogs naturally either want to please their human or themselves(depending on the breed). It never suddenly decides it wants to bite a human for no reason. Why it acts aggressive towards humans is how it's handler acts towards the dog or raises the dog.


ETA: the only reason why human aggressive dogs are killed is because there aren't enough people willing to work with human aggressive dogs. Minimal human contact that are strictly positive only contact will help a human aggressive dog become a "human positive" dog. However, this type of rehabilitation can cost a lot of money. Money that our country doesn't even have. So it's just 10xs cheaper to just kill the poor animal. Also some human aggressive dogs are just too far gone that they cannot be rehabilitated so it's only the right thing to put the animal out of it's misery.

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Old 02-20-2013, 02:32 PM   #592 
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Originally Posted by FishyFishy89 View Post
Dogs are NOT naturally aggressive towards humans! What makes them aggressive towards humans is, in fact, humans. If a human being is abusive towards a dog, a dog is eventually going to act out towards the aggression. If a human is consistently breeding human aggressive dogs, it is the human's fault. If the human is ENCOURAGING human aggressive behavior, it is the human's fault. So no, it is never the dog's fault, it is always the human's fault.


Dogs naturally either want to please their human or themselves(depending on the breed). It never suddenly decides it wants to bite a human for no reason. Why it acts aggressive towards humans is how it's handler acts towards the dog or raises the dog.
Im sorry but we both know that is wrong. You said your self that aggression can be a product of genetics. Yes humans can cause aggressive behaviours, but an unstable dog is purely capable of attacking humans without human influence. Many attacks are in the family home, loving homes who wouldnt raise a hand to the dog.

Remember that dogs are large carnivores with a high territorial instinct. There have been many cases of feral dogs attacking humans. These arent pet dogs and have very little human interaction, so havent been "made aggressive". How about when mastiffs battled gladiators? Just aggressively bred dogs.
There have been many stories about abused and beaten dogs who have been rescued and bounced back to make happy pets. These are good, stable dogs.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:42 PM   #593 
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Who freaking cares whose fault it is? Pit bulls are strong. They are bred to be animal aggressive (check the AKC standard), and statistics show that the most LETHAL bites come from pit bull attacks (maltese and chihuahuas may bite more, but they won't kill you) Simplest solution: Ban pit bulls. Doesn't matter if it's their fault or their owner's fault or (ludicrous as it may seem) a parent's fault. Get rid of the pit bulls, fewer children and elderly people die.

Another solution: Treat them like we treat those people who love wild cats, i.e., tigers. In some states, they have to have a special, quite expensive, permit. They have to live in restricted places. They have to have very expensive enclosures which are examined annually at their own expense (it's part of the license). Why? Because even if their sweet, well trained, won't-hurt-a-fly tiger gets loose, it is strong enough to kill someone. And in fact, they have to have a gun handy to do it themselves.

I used to show Chihuahuas (in conformation, not obedience) but I loved watching the obedience trials. You know who was there? Rottweilers, GSDs, Dobermans. Not a pit bull in sight.

FishyFishy, your love for pit bulls is clouding your judgment. You need to do some serious thinking on this subject. What is best for you may not be best for the world. And you aren't the king of the world who can command all pit bull owners to be responsible. If you could, the problem would be solved. But in this nation, we want our children to be able to walk to school, play in our fenced back yard, go to a friend's house without having to ask what kind of dogs they own. And we WILL have that. It's just a matter of time.

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Old 02-20-2013, 02:56 PM   #594 
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Originally Posted by trilobite View Post
Im sorry but we both know that is wrong. You said your self that aggression can be a product of genetics. Yes humans can cause aggressive behaviours, but an unstable dog is purely capable of attacking humans without human influence. Many attacks are in the family home, loving homes who wouldnt raise a hand to the dog.

Remember that dogs are large carnivores with a high territorial instinct. There have been many cases of feral dogs attacking humans. These arent pet dogs and have very little human interaction, so havent been "made aggressive". How about when mastiffs battled gladiators? Just aggressively bred dogs.
There have been many stories about abused and beaten dogs who have been rescued and bounced back to make happy pets. These are good, stable dogs.
Yes and what makes these aggressive genetics? Humans! Dogs are NOT naturally human aggressive, if someone encourages human aggression and then works on a "line" they will make human aggressive dogs. Dogs have little to no territorial instinct.

I seriously advise both of you(grandberry) to do more research in dog body langauge, dog behavior, genetics and their interaction with humans. You're both seriously uneducated and are refusing to learn. Your sitting there acting like dogs have something against humans. When, in fact, they dont! And Granberry, if you actually do the research, you'll find out that a pit bull's bite is no worse than a labrador.

And if you ban ANYTHING, what makes you think people won't find out how to get them. They will! Some animals are banned from being owned and yet people still find ways to own them! Banning doesn't fix anything. Lastly, guess what was at the recent dog show Granberry, "pit bulls".

ETA: I'm no "pit bull lover". I am a DOG LOVER. I owned a doberman, a golden lab cross, currently have a pug and am fostering a Cane Corso. I interact with different breeds everyday and do positive reinforcement training with all breeds. In fact, my most recent success has been a dog reactive "pit bull". Granberry, you CANNOT have whatever you want just because you're stomping your feet like a child. There will be people who WILL find ways to get whatever they want. No matter what law or ban is in affect.

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Old 02-20-2013, 03:05 PM   #595 
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Many attacks are in the family home, loving homes who wouldnt raise a hand to the dog..
I'd like you to find solid evidence about that. Find me SOLID evidence that states this dog was never "spanked", it's humans didn't allow children to crawl all over it, it's human respected it's body language that stated "i am uncomfortable with this" and it just randomly decided to attack someone.

Because that never happens. If it does, then it was a result for POOR breeding from greedy HUMANS. Thus going back to the human being at fault!
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:08 PM   #596 
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The problem I see when a dog attack happens and it is a pitbull responsible, those who love the breed are quick to jump in saying that maybe the person did something wrong, or maybe the dog that was attacked was barking and jumping around and that provoked the pitbull.

Killing or seriously maiming a human or another dog (I'm not talking about things like in home female-female aggression here) is not acceptable behaviour for a pet dog. Ever.

A normal dog should not react to a dog barking at it by tearing it to shreds. I would be horrified if one of my dogs (I own German Shepherds so am aware of what it is to have an ostracized breed) ever killed another dog. Any dog of mine that attacked a human without the most extreme of provocations, would honestly be put to sleep.

A dog-aggressive/human-aggressive dog can impact everyone, not just those closest to it. Many people seem to be in denial when faced with the true extent of their dog's aggressiveness. A lady came into the aquarium I frequent the other day and was quite happily talking about her small dog that actively goes other people and seemed like a candidate for the green dream.

What she was describing was completely inappropriate and frankly very dangerous behaviour. If that dog had been a bigger breed, I am sure it would not have seemed so amusing.

Because these people are in denial (many are terrified that by admitting they have a dangerous dog that it will be taken from them), they often do not take appropriate measures to contain these dogs away from the general public. Then when one or more of these dogs gets loose, it inevitably ends in tragedy.

You can bet if my dog was ever attacked by another so viciously that it had to be euthanised I would do everything in my power to get the attacking dog destroyed. That is a boundary crossed that can never be uncrossed and if the owner has shown their inability to contain their dog once, chances are they will have a lapse in the future. It's like how you almost always see the same dogs loose on the street time after time.

However, completely banning breeds seems like a slippery slope to go down. Here there have been a few cases where dogs that look pitbull have been seized from their owners. My dad owns a very friendly and affectionate (this dog would crawl under your skin if he could) pitbull cross. Because he had severe separation anxiety, my dad's yard looks like it houses a velociraptor. I am absolutely terrified that one day something is going to happen or some legislation is going to be passed, and Porter is going to be taken and euthanised through no fault of his own.

Not so long ago, German Shepherds, Dobermans and Rottweilers were the 'bad' guys. People still ask me all the time whether my big, friendly male who approaches people with soft eyes and a wagging tail will bite them. People actually cross to the other side of the road/sidewalk if they see me coming or run to leash their dogs like I am walking some hound from hell.

This is why everywhere I go I am careful that my dogs are good PR for the breed. All it takes is for a German Shepherd to attack a person or kill a small dog (I think one did not that long ago) and the public goes into a frenzy. My dogs are all pretty well-behaved and well-adjusted members of society (our youngest is fear-aggressive towards other dogs but has improved in leaps and bounds), and the thought of losing them because of the actions of a few irresponsible people makes me very worried.

I sit on the fence. On one hand I believe that there needs to be much more severe penalties for owners who allow their DA/HA dogs to roam, and yet on the other hand I fear that legislation is going to be rammed through on the back of public panic and that it is going to be innocent dogs and owners who suffer most.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:18 PM   #597 
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Cane Corsos are on the list too. They were bred to hunt down and kill runaway slaves.

Since you have such passion for this, why don't you try to do something constructive instead of just blathering on.

Why don't you buy yourself some champion bred pit bull, train it up (assuming the Corso doesn't kill it first), take it to obedience, get every obedience title you can and brag loudly. Be a good ambassador for the breed. Then you can become the breed club president and follow the example of the Rottweiler breed clubs and spread the gospel that "every dog who shows aggression to any man, woman, or child gets put down". No "one free bite" rule. Just refine the breed. It will be a tough job....there are very few well-bred pit bulls out there and a lot of crummy ads on the internet by breeders who emphasize the viciousness of their dogs. But if you have the passion, you should do it.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:24 PM   #598 
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Cane Corsos are on the list too. They were bred to hunt down and kill runaway slaves.

Since you have such passion for this, why don't you try to do something constructive instead of just blathering on.

Why don't you buy yourself some champion bred pit bull, train it up (assuming the Corso doesn't kill it first), take it to obedience, and let it be a good ambassador for the breed. Then you can become the breed club president and follow the example of the Rottweiler breed clubs and spread the gospel that "every dog who shows aggression to any man, woman, or child gets put down". No "one free bite" rule. Just refine the breed. It will be a tough job....there are very few well-bred pit bulls out there and a lot of crummy ads on the internet by breeders who emphasize the viciousness of their dogs. But if you have the passion, you should do it.
And why don't you go along on your merry way and leave the conversation? FYI: the Cane Corso was NOT bred to hunt down and kill runaway slaves, they were bred to be another hunting dog much like the terriers, labs, pointers, goldens, etc. The only difference is they were bred for "big game" hunting Cane Corso - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://www.canecorsovero.com/breed/history.asp

I'm done with this conversation since you refuse to even TRY to educate yourself. You're not even "dipping your toes in new water" to even bother to see what dogs really are. They're not out to kill you! If they were, they wouldn't be so close in our homes as they are today.

BTW: the Cane Corso I am fostering, he was owned by a Marine soldier whom died in Iraq just before Christmas. This dog is actually a certified therapeutic dog. He visits the elderly in senior homes, the terminally ill in hospitals, soldiers who are undergoing therapy from their injuries and many other people who could use his gentle presence.

Last edited by FishyFishy89; 02-20-2013 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:28 PM   #599 
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I always thought the original pitbull was not bred to be human aggressive, as when fighting dogs, people wanted to be able to separate the dogs without getting bitten.

I think a lot of the faulty temperaments you see now in many breeds of dogs (German Shepherds for one have become increasingly nervy and 'soft') is due to indiscriminate breeding.

You have so many BYB pumping these dogs out. Neither parent is proven or health-checked, and the end result is unstable and sometimes dangerous dogs.

Being unfriendly to strangers is not a fault in many breeds. However, unless the dog is trained in protection, pulling a stranger down and savaging them is not really an appropriate response.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:50 PM   #600 
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There's a lot about Pit Bull's fighting; tearing of a 3 year olds arm, what have you.

If you're going to bring that up, how about you bring up the cases where other breeds of dogs that have done the same thing? A RETRIEVER who mauled and dismembered his 2 month old "owner" or things along that line? There will always be a few "bad eggs" in any breed.

It's how you handle the dogs. I have a Pit/Lab mix and she's amazing because I trained her to be amazing. I love every breed of dog for different reasons, but banning breeds is really not the way to go about "fixing the problem". People need to be properly screened before owning an animal, and education about breeds and handling them should be more readily available.
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