help - Betta on side at bottom of tank - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2020, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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help - Betta on side at bottom of tank

Hi, I've had my male koi betta, Indy, since October. He live in a cycled, filtered, heated 10 gallon tank with a light and 2 live plants. His parameters are 75* F 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites, 0-5ppm nitrates (looked in between 0 &5 ppm). I have an API freshwater master test kit, and have not added anything new to the tank. I dechlorinate the water with seachem prime, don't use fertilizers, and feed him Omega One betta buffet flakes every morning except for Mondays.

He started laying around on top of his filter on Monday, and at first I though he was just sleeping and I was missing him swimming around (spring semester started this week), but he was barely responsive when I was in or around his tank. He didn't and still doesn't have an appetite, is very pale and not very responsive. I moved him into the hospital tank yesterday (2.5 gal, 75*F). He looks dead, but I can tell that he's still breathing. There is no fuzz, bulging scales, white spots, frayed fins, or anything else on him other than how pale he is. I'm attaching pics below; top pic is him today in a betta cup (I tried offering veg instead of flakes to try to get him to eat - no dice), middle pic is what he usually looks like, bottom is just his tank (not sure if its helpful or not). Help, please!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sick indy 1 17 20.jpg (28.5 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg healthy indy 1 5 20.jpg (46.5 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg indy tank.jpg (87.3 KB, 2 views)
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2020, 03:43 PM
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Hi, would you please fill out the form below? It will help us to offer the best advice possible. About the only thing jumping out at me right now, from the info you provided, is your water temperature is a bit too cold for a betta, try getting it up to 78 to 81 degrees. When the water is too cold it stresses them out, lowers their metabolism, and can effect their immune systems making it harder for them to fight off illness.

Many illnesses can be traced to water conditions. Your water-changing schedule is the most important element in diagnosing. Please be honest.

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank?
Does it have a filter?
Does it have a heater?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind?

Food:
What food brand do you use?
Do you feed flakes or pellets?
Freeze-dried?
How often do you feed your Betta? How much?

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change?
What percentage of water did you change?
What is the source of your water?
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water?
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner?

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water *before* the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness (GH):
Alkalinity (KH):

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms?
How has your Betta’s appearance changed?
How has your Betta’s behavior changed?
Is your Betta still eating?
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how?
Does your Betta have any history of being ill?
How long have you owned your Betta?
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased?

PLEASE PROVIDE CLEAR PHOTOS

NOTE: EMBED YOUR PHOTOS. PLEASE DO NOT LINK. Click on "Go Advanced" and then on the paper clip in the toolbar.

Your fish is your responsibility.
When seeking help be thorough as members give advice based on the information *you* provide. While we have many knowledgeable fish keepers here, please remember that members' opinions are their own and that it is up to you to determine the best course of action for your fish. We are not responsible for any consequences resulting from following the advice you receive here.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2020, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Housing:
How many gallons is your tank?
10gallons
Does it have a filter?
Yes
Does it have a heater?
Yes
What temperature is your tank?
75*F
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
No
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind?
No

Food:
What food brand do you use?
Omega One betta buffet flakes
Do you feed flakes or pellets?
Flakes
Freeze-dried?
No
How often do you feed your Betta? How much?
6 days a week, 1 pinch of flakes in the morning

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change?
Weekly
What percentage of water did you change?
25%
What is the source of your water?
Tap water
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water?
Vacuum substrate
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner?
No additives, just SeaChem Prime

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water *before* the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: less than 5ppm
pH: 6.5
Hardness (GH): n/a
Alkalinity (KH): n/a

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms?
Monday (1/13/20)
How has your Betta’s appearance changed?
He’s very pale
How has your Betta’s behavior changed?
Quiet, barely responsive
Is your Betta still eating?
No
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how?
No
Does your Betta have any history of being ill?
No
How long have you owned your Betta?
3 months
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased?
No
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2020, 05:17 PM
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Aquarium
I'm wondering if it might be something environmental... Are all the decorations aquarium-safe? (No metal, no flaking paint, etc) Did you spray any sort of air freshener or other aerosol in the room recently?

How long has he been in the hospital tank, and has he reacted at all since you put him in there? I would raise the temperature a bit as Rainbo suggested, and make sure to change some of the water daily. Soaking his flakes in garlic juice (fresh, not from a jar), or offering frozen (not freeze-dried) bloodworms might entice him to eat.

Unfortunately lethargy like this could be caused by a lot of different things, so it's hard to give any good guesses without more symptoms.


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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2020, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rana View Post
I'm wondering if it might be something environmental... Are all the decorations aquarium-safe? (No metal, no flaking paint, etc) Did you spray any sort of air freshener or other aerosol in the room recently?

How long has he been in the hospital tank, and has he reacted at all since you put him in there? I would raise the temperature a bit as Rainbo suggested, and make sure to change some of the water daily. Soaking his flakes in garlic juice (fresh, not from a jar), or offering frozen (not freeze-dried) bloodworms might entice him to eat.

Unfortunately lethargy like this could be caused by a lot of different things, so it's hard to give any good guesses without more symptoms.
I bought every decoration and plant from PetSmart and disinfected them before adding them to the tank, so I would hope that they’re safe. I’ll check over everything during the water change tomorrow just in case.
Already upped the temps in both tanks to 80*F, no response yet.
The only thing that ever gets sprayed in my room is deodorant, but I always try to do that away from the tanks. I have 2 10 gallons with 2 betta, my other boy is fine, so I hope it’s not in the air.
I put Indy in the hospital tank yesterday, he tried to dodge the net when I was removing him from the 10 gallon, but otherwise has not improved or worsened. I’ll get some bloodworms and see if he’s interested.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2020, 06:27 PM
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It seems that you take excellent care of him, and aside from the temperature, which you've raised, I don't see anything in the care of him that could even remotely be the cause of him being sick.

About the only thing I can suggest, and it's hit or miss whether it will help, is to use some Indian Almond Leaves, and Paraguard in his hospital tank. ParaGuard treats a number of illnesses along with some parasites, and Indian Almond Leaves also have some medicinal value https://www.seachem.com/paraguard.php
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-17-2020, 08:31 PM
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I've been going through something similar with several fish lately, no real obvious signs of something making them sick until they were.. too sick to do much for.

I used PraziPro and Prime (treated the water at separate times), after using Rooibos tea (indian almond leaf alternative) and Salt in a hospital tank didn't do much for my betta. Unfortunately whatever it was caught a Ram I had in the same tank (sorta), but either the Prazi helped or it's something else entirely, but the Angelfish and 2nd Ram are doing quite well so far. Knock on wood.

Just.. letting you know that sometimes it's not something we did, or could have clearly avoided. We keep doing what we can for them while they're with us.

Rainbo's got great suggestions. I hope your Indy makes a speedy recovery!

(Both of my Bettas that passed away were Koi, wondering if there's something in the genetics)
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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So, spent most of yesterday digging around the 3 lfs, none had indian almond leaves or paraguard. I found both on amazon and ordered them, they were both supposed to get here Mon. I told one of the fish guys about what was going on, and he gave me some API stress coat for the hospital tank. I did a 100% water change in the hospital tank and used the stress coat, Indy still hasn't been moving much if at all. I let him be for the most part yesterday, he's still breathing today, so I offered him some bloodworms a few minutes ago - no response yet. I'll leave them in with him for 15min, if he doesn't eat by then I'll remove them. When I get the paraguard and almond leaves, should I do another 100% water change to get rid of the stress coat, or will they be fine if used together?
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 12:28 PM
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I would avoid a 100% wc typically. Do a 25-50% wc every 2 days.
You can add the Paraguard and almond leaf into the same water.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 12:30 PM
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Im also a huge fan of moderate dosing of aquarium salt, especially if you won’t have the other items until tomorrow.
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