Any Moss gurus out there? - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Any Moss gurus out there?

Not sure what I was thinking, but I had a "thing" for moss, put three types in a new tank without realizing I don't know much about aquatic moss.

It's not doing well and I read somewhere that mosses prefer cooler temps - is this true?

The types are mini weeping moss, a Frissidens type (maybe Nobilis?) and mini Christmas moss.

The mini Christmas moss seems like it might make it but the other ones don't look too good.

There's good circulation, the temp is 78 degrees, pH 7.6 and everything else is doing well accept the moss. So what gives?

If it matters, the Aquasoil caused a big ammonia spike but it didn't last long and now I'm getting the nitrite spike. It's only been 11 days.

Could the moss be sensitive to the chemistry changes of a cycling tank in progress?

Or would a moss like Java Moss have been a better choice?

If it's not a temperature or chemistry issue, how long should I leave it before getting rid of it or can it be resurrected like Crypts?

Sorry no current pics but I'll take some in the morning when the lights are on. Basically it just looks like a dingy tan instead of green.

*Thank you* much for any insight!

p.s. sorry so long but I just remembered I have some extra mosses I've been keeping in a bowl on the window sill and that moss looks fine - the only difference is the water is *much* cooler.
We've had some heating issues the past couple of weeks ( just in time for some freezing temps ) but the window sill chilly moss looks green as ever.

So maybe I just answered my own question duh?


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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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No one knows about moss? :/

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 05:11 PM
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I don't. It's not one of the plants that I've tried.

Best guess would be adjusting to the temp of your tanks or a higher light then it's used to, or if you are using Flourish Excel and accidentally got it directly on the moss it may have killed that part of it. Other then that I have no idea.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for taking a shot at it.

I'm just guessing it doesn't like the temperature and possibly the big ammonia spikes caused by the Aquasoil.

Not dosing the tank yet.

The leftover Mosses in a bowl on the chilly windowsill are as green as can be that's why I'm thinking the moss just prefers cooler temps.

Java Moss would have been a smarter choice since it evolved in...well Java (warm water) oh well



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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 11:51 PM
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From what I've read it can tolerate temps up to 86f, but if it was kept in colder water before getting to you it might be why it's melting a bit. https://www.fishkeepingworld.com/java-moss/
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the link! It talks about Java Moss, which is the warm water type.

I've got mini weeping moss and a Fissidens type, and Christmas moss. My LFS recommended the Xmas moss as "something different" than Java Moss and it's still green.

Problem is I went a little nuts with the other two and it never occurred to me that I never hear about these mosses in " low tech" planted betta tanks.

I've seen them in aquascapes on Pinterest LoL

Looking at these scapes, I don't see heaters but I do see CO2 injection. I'd say that has something to do with it accept the mosses sitting in a very low tech bowl (I remember to change the water maybe once a week) is doing fine. And moss is supposed to have good circulation so go figure!

I definitely read on some botany site that most mosses prefer cooler temps.

I think the takeaway is that if "everyone" is using Java Moss there's a reason so stick to the tried and true, and don't get plants because you think they're so neat or "cute" without researching the plant.

There's also the added possibility that they might not like being placed in a new tank with crazy ammonia and nitrite spikes. I believe that caused the dwarf sagittaria to melt because I've got it growing in another tank with just gravel, ambient light, I barely remember to fertilize it and it's carpeting to my amazement. Go figure.

So I figured the second batch would love the nutrient rich Aquasoil but for unknown reasons it melted. The roots look fine so it'll probably come back. No Crypt melt and the stems are growing fast.

I'd like to think the mosses are just "adjusting" but I don't see any bits of green poking out it looks dingy brown. I don't know if the pictures show how bad it looks but I don't think it's coming back.

Again @Rainbo thanks for inadvertently helping me to remember to research first. Nothing wrong with experimenting but experiments should be inexpensive and not be glued to wood yikes.


Pic #3 is a bit of the (still surviving) Xmas moss


Pic #4 is how the other mosses first looked nice and green :/



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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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@Rainbo I just described my plant addiction as being like an aquaholic - is that a word?!

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 03:24 PM
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Hi,

I am a long way from being a moss expert! But i have had java and xmas moss in 2 tanks for the last year, so maybe I can offer a bit of info. :)

Both tanks are 78 degrees, and get 25% water changes at least once a week. Across both tanks I have betta, shrimp, guppies, and rasboras.
Good lighting (one tile is fluval the other is a finnex planted plus). I use liquid fertiliser weekly, because mosses draw their nutrients from the water column. The shimp love the moss and keep it clean and tidy.

The mosses all seem to do well, but they do much better when in the top half of the tanks. But each clump seemed to languish for the first few weeks before suddenly ?adjusting? And taking off in a growth spurt. And the Java moss does badly at the bottom of the tank. The clumps i have at the higher levels triple their size every 3 or 4 weeks and I prune them back regularly. I feel guilty throwing it away!

The only real moss failure I had was when i made a java moss ‘wall’ and placed it vertically in front of a power filter, thinking the shrimp would like it when it caught all the detritus heading into the filter. Disaster. All the moss just melted away over around a month, Leaving just the bald wire framework.

So, putting all that together:
- how good is your light?
- is your moss positioned to catch enough of that light
- are you using liquid fertiliser?

Wish i hadtaken some picks earlier in the week. The xmas moss was looking amazing and trying to take over! Lol.
I much prefer the xmas moss. I find java moss scruffy and straggly in comparison. The pine like branches of the xmas moss is much more attractive, and grows so beautifully.

Hope that helps!

This is Tagawa in his java moss, with hornwort as surface cover, from a few months ago.
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70litre tank: mature setup; betta, purple rasboras, male guppies, amano and wood shrimp. Heavily planted.
22litre cube tank: (Tagawa); betta, yellow dwarf shrimp. Pond snails and 1 assassin. Heavily planted.
Midnight in the 57litre tank (Midnight) ember tetras, 1 amano, 1 ghost, 1 nerite, pond snails, 1 assassin, doing his thing. Heavily planted.
200litre tank; honey gourami, cherry barbs, green neons, otocinclus, nerites, pond snails, amano. Heavily planted.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 03:57 PM
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Here are a couple more pics (just taken 10 mins ago) to show you the light intensity and positioning of my happiest mosses.





And this clump has grown (slowly) from a fragment that fell during a pruning. It isnít happy, because I think it needs more light. But it is hanging on.


70litre tank: mature setup; betta, purple rasboras, male guppies, amano and wood shrimp. Heavily planted.
22litre cube tank: (Tagawa); betta, yellow dwarf shrimp. Pond snails and 1 assassin. Heavily planted.
Midnight in the 57litre tank (Midnight) ember tetras, 1 amano, 1 ghost, 1 nerite, pond snails, 1 assassin, doing his thing. Heavily planted.
200litre tank; honey gourami, cherry barbs, green neons, otocinclus, nerites, pond snails, amano. Heavily planted.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-19-2019, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for chiming in and thanks for the great photos not to mention the cute Betta and Guppy

You're growing Java and Christmas Moss which are both great choices in tropical aquariums. If I'd of stuck to them I think everything would be fine. The problem is I got a bit too creative without knowing that most mosses prefer cooler temps - Buce Plants confirmed my suspicion.

The bit of Xmas moss I have is doing pretty well considering it's only been two weeks. Good to know to keep it in the upper levels. How do you secure it do you superglue it?

To answer your questions the light is a clip on Finnex Fugeray and the only time the mosses don't get light is when the frogbit floats over it - I should probably corral the stuff.

I've got Easy Green to dose it with, but it didn't seem like a good idea given the tank had to cycle. It's only been two weeks and I'm getting Nitrates but the nitrites are still pretty high. I realize the plants need more than nitrates but I was hesitant to start dumping things into the toxic mix (no ammonia anymore but had some big spikes due to Aquasoil).


BTW as mentioned the leftover moss is in a bowl of chilly water (by the window) hardly any light or circulation and it's doing *great*.

The main culprit I used is known (I discovered) to be quite delicate and hard to work with. It's called Mini Weeping Moss and it's so cute. Sorry don't know the Latin name. The Frissidens are supposed to be a bit hardier but that one doesn't like warm water either.

I hear ya about the look of Christmas Moss - so nice. I found a miniature version and that's the only one that looks good (it's still green).
I also agree about the look of Java Moss which is why I didn't initially use it but I have to replace the brown stuff with something.

I think when mosses work they give a tank a surreal type of look..

Thanks again and cheers!

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