Help with Illness Diagnosis - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-10-2020, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Help with Illness Diagnosis

Hi,

I’m struggling to diagnose what is wrong with my veil tail Betta who is getting on for a couple of years old so any help you can provide would be really appreciated.

Symptoms as follows...

Small white spot above gill (circled in the picture) been there for a week or so but no other white spots
Darker scales in some places on body (circled in the picture)
Colour fading and not as vibrant
Fins a bit ragged
Sometimes coming to surface to breath
Some lethargy

The water conditions are good and tank is 30 litres. Its def not ammonia related and temp is fine. I did have to clean the tank out a couple of weeks ago to remove a build up on furry white stuff from the gravel so wonder if this was some kind of fungus?

Anyway, I’ve read a few sites to try and diagnose what this may be...but the combination of symptoms seems to suggest maybe more than one issue somewhere between...

Columnaris
Fin Rot
Gill Flukes
White Spot

What would you recommend I treat for first? Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-10-2020, 06:24 PM
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Hi, welcome to the forum, I'm sorry that your boy is not doing well. If you would please fill out the form found here, https://www.bettafish.com/99-betta-f...our-betta.html , it will help us to know how to best help your betta.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks in advance for any help...the fish is not doing well at all...

Housing:

How many gallons is your tank? 30 litres or 6.6 gallons or 7.9 US gallons

Does it have a filter? Yes

Does it have a heater? Yes

What temperature is your tank? 79-81 degrees Fahrenheit

Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes

Does your Betta have tank mates? No

Food:

What food brand do you use? Betta Bio Gold

Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets

Freeze-dried? No, I don’t think so

How often do you feed your Betta? Twice a day

How much? 4-5 pellets (eats these in one minute)

Maintenance:

Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Once a fortnight on average

What percentage of water did you change? 30-50%

What is the source of your water? Tap

Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Tried to vacuum substrate

What additives do you use? API Aquarium Salt

What brand of conditioner? Tetra Aquasafe

Water Parameters:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: No test kit
Hardness (GH): No test kit
Alkalinity (KH): No test kit

Symptoms and Treatment:

When did you first notice the symptoms?
About a week ago

How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Very clamped fins, less vibrant colour, one small white marking near head

How has your Betta’s behavior changed?
No longer active at all, constantly lying on bottom of tank and hiding all day - only active at feeding time before settling down to bottom again.

Is your Betta still eating? Yes, normally twice a day.

Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? Added pimafix and melafix to tank in desperation 2 days ago - no change in symptoms. I live in UK and can’t easily access proper fish antibiotics.

Does your Betta have any history of being ill? Not really, mild fin rot a few months ago

How long have you owned your Betta? 18 months

Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? No
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 03:30 PM
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I'm honestly not sure what that might be, but if I was in the U.K. I'd try this medicine https://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/aquacar...y-most-popular From what I can tell it treats some fungal infections, and some bacterial infections. It'll also treat protozoan infections. The other thing you can try, and the one I'm more familiar with is Seachem ParaGuard, but I'm not positive it's still available in the U.K., as I cannot find it on Amazon.UK, but I can find the General Tonic.

While he's sick it would be best to do at least 50% water changes bi-weekly, once he's well you can switch to one 25% water change once a week. The more frequent water changes will lower the amount of pathogens in the water and help him heal himself. Sort of like airing out the room of a person who's sick.

I wish that I could definitively say what's wrong with him and give you more then better advice.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you, I really appreciate your help.

The tonic you’ve suggested looks good but it takes a few days to deliver and I’m worried time may be running out.

Do you think any of these might work instead as they are on next day delivery on Amazon...

Interpet Anti Fungus and Finrot Aquarium Fish Treatment, 100 ml https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FH2K6..._wBfsEb15SENN1

Interpet Anti Bacteria Aquarium Fish Treatment, 100 ml https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FH2K2..._iEfsEbMY8JVXM

I’ll also increase water changes to twice a week at 50% but how does that work when you add medications to the water as well - will it dilute the meds?
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dcis23 View Post
Thank you, I really appreciate your help.

The tonic youíve suggested looks good but it takes a few days to deliver and Iím worried time may be running out.

Do you think any of these might work instead as they are on next day delivery on Amazon...

Interpet Anti Fungus and Finrot Aquarium Fish Treatment, 100 ml https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FH2K6..._wBfsEb15SENN1

Interpet Anti Bacteria Aquarium Fish Treatment, 100 ml https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FH2K2..._iEfsEbMY8JVXM

Iíll also increase water changes to twice a week at 50% but how does that work when you add medications to the water as well - will it dilute the meds?
I can't find the ingredients in the Interpet so I can't say if it's any good or not. What I do know is that if the ingredient has even mildly anti fungal, or anti bacterial properties the company can claim they treat that even if it's a long shot the medicine is going to help. It's why MelaFix and PimaFix can make the claims that they do.

Interpet seems to be well known, and the reviews are decent so it'd be worth trying if you are not willing to wait for the other stuff to arrive. I'm not sure which Interpet to get though, I'd likely get both try the fungus and fin rot one first, and if it didn't work wait a couple weeks before trying the bacteria one. My logic would be that the fungus & finrot one treats a broader range of problems.

What I've been reading is that you should make sure your tank is very well oxygenated, as in add an airstone, before using the medicine. It seems that some keepers have had a problem with the meds dropping the oxygen level in the tank and knocking out the fish.

Do the more frequent water changes until you get the medicine, once you get that follow the directions on the medicine and don't do water changes during treatment unless it instructs you to do so.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Ok thanks again for your help, appreciated.

Do you think the Melafix / Pimafix combination is worth trying to finish off (I’ve only done 2 days) or should I stop it, do a big water change and try the new stuff?

I should add I have a Biorb (I know, not the greatest) which has a built in air stone. I’m hoping that will do the job?

Last edited by dcis23; 02-15-2020 at 04:54 PM.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dcis23 View Post
Ok thanks again for your help, appreciated.

Do you think the Melafix / Pimafix combination is worth trying to finish off (Iíve only done 2 days) or should I stop it, do a big water change and try the new stuff?

I should add I have a Biorb (I know, not the greatest) which has a built in air stone. Iím hoping that will do the job?
I file MelaFix and PimaFix under it's highly unlikely to help, but if being dosed correctly shouldn't hurt either. About all that I've found them good for is mild problems. Be aware though that they are controversial and a lot of people will warn you that they should not be used with betta as it will kill them.

I'd do a big water change, and run carbon in your filter for at least a day, before using the new medicine I don't know how it'll interact with the MelaFix and PimaFix and I don't think it's worth taking a chance with.

Hopefully it'll be alright with just that air source, if you can do so you might want to turn up the airflow a little bit, just make sure it does not overwhelm your boy.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Rainbo.

I’ll order the tonic on express delivery now, but think it will take 2/3 days to arrive.

I’ll do a big water change tomorrow and add carbon back to the filter in the process.

Then hopefully by the time the tonic arrives the filter would have removed any remnants of Melafix/Pimafix from the water and I can dose with the new tonic.

Hopefully fish will hold out for that long but I must admit I’m not hopeful as he seems in a bad way - at least he is still eating which I guess is a good sign.

Will let you know how I get over the next few days.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 06:14 PM
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Hopefully he'll make it, and get better. That he's eating is a good sign.

I had to put one of mine down recently due to unknown illness and nothing I tried worked. I kept thinking he'd pass on his own, he barely swam around, was rail thin despite eating, and spent most of his days draped over his plants, but he kept hanging on.
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