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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've read so much on fish recently that some of the details are swimming. So... in a tank with a calmer male (or female..), would any:

Guppies
Rainbowfish
Borneo Suckers
Ricefish/killifish
Barb
Goby
Pleco
Swordtail

Work in the big tank? Not ALL of them, but any of them in particular?

And if I keep 3 french blue livebearers with 3 el tigre livebearers, does that constitute a 6 fish shoal or will they see the groups as too small? (typically, not an absolute)

I'm not interested in Tetras, my experience with them has been lacking, and I don't particularly like Rasboras as they just remind me of Tetras. (I don't know, maybe I'll get over it but they can be left out for now)

At the moment if GG can't get along with others, she's getting her own home, and if a big tank stresses out Ori, he's staying in a smaller tank (than the 45), so I may just be considering a betta-less tank. Which is unlikely in all honesty. Especially when I see Bettas like these available. Someones getting a new tank dang-it!
 

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Well I would say that answers the question then. Rainbow fish in a 45 would be absolutely beautiful with the right mix. I had Two types of dwarf rainbow in a 29 along with, Tetra, Cory, and 3 gouramis. I also had a pest snail infestation and put 3 kuhli loaches in The tank was quite over stocked for a 29 but with the filtration I had going on I never had a problem (except the snails) You could put in the Rainbow along with a few other fish you mentioned and well planted your tank would be very much alive with color and bling.

As far as the betta in a 45 There are some here that would say they never had a problem with a male betta in a large tank. ( this is true and there is always a but and here it is) You have noticed yith the betta that you now have that their behavior in a large tank is not what I would expect for my betta. This is why with my betta only one is in a 10 gallon tank with tank mates. He became very aggressive in a 5.5 gallon that he was in from day one with Gilford my guppy. They got along great for a few months and then he really beat up Gilford badly. I had Cal my giant gene HM in the 10 gallon and he was fine for a month or two and he got torn up by his tank mates. So I swapped them. Morry my Red VT has stopped his aggression and is king of the 10 gallon. Cal passed away about a month ago and never recovered from his time in the 10 gallon. (now Cal also had a tumor on his left side which could be the reason he passed. ) Gilford has grown back his fins and is in the same 5.5 gallon tank as my newest delta tail Jasper. All my other betta are in a 5.5 gallon by themselves and are very happy to have the tank to themselves.

With the boys you are showing here, ask your self if you want to expose them to a 45 gallon with the tank mates that may (or may not) do them harm. To me I would pull the trigger on both and put them in a 5.5 heavily planted by themselves.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well I would say that answers the question then. Rainbow fish in a 45 would be absolutely beautiful with the right mix. I had Two types of dwarf rainbow in a 29 along with, Tetra, Cory, and 3 gouramis. I also had a pest snail infestation and put 3 kuhli loaches in The tank was quite over stocked for a 29 but with the filtration I had going on I never had a problem (except the snails) You could put in the Rainbow along with a few other fish you mentioned and well planted your tank would be very much alive with color and bling.

As far as the betta in a 45 There are some here that would say they never had a problem with a male betta in a large tank. ( this is true and there is always a but and here it is) You have noticed yith the betta that you now have that their behavior in a large tank is not what I would expect for my betta. This is why with my betta only one is in a 10 gallon tank with tank mates. He became very aggressive in a 5.5 gallon that he was in from day one with Gilford my guppy. They got along great for a few months and then he really beat up Gilford badly. I had Cal my giant gene HM in the 10 gallon and he was fine for a month or two and he got torn up by his tank mates. So I swapped them. Morry my Red VT has stopped his aggression and is king of the 10 gallon. Cal passed away about a month ago and never recovered from his time in the 10 gallon. (now Cal also had a tumor on his left side which could be the reason he passed. ) Gilford has grown back his fins and is in the same 5.5 gallon tank as my newest delta tail Jasper. All my other betta are in a 5.5 gallon by themselves and are very happy to have the tank to themselves.

With the boys you are showing here, ask your self if you want to expose them to a 45 gallon with the tank mates that may (or may not) do them harm. To me I would pull the trigger on both and put them in a 5.5 heavily planted by themselves.
So sorry about Cal, it's possible the other fish could.. judge his state of being with that tumor, the fish world isn't known for being gentle with the sick really.

I have definitely been growing wary with Ori in a larger tank, not so much because of his attitude (I'm actually happy to see him respond at all to the Endlers, good exercise and flexing now and then) but because I'd hate to find him finless one morning if his tank mates liked his fins... He doesn't have full swim flexion in his body and I'm not sure he ever will given his issues in the cup before he got here. Not mention that the 'healthier' he gets the more those fins grow back, and the more weighted he is..
As you have mentioned to others all that finnage can really affect their tank life.
I also get Ori to chase the pellets across the tank for some exercise and movement.

He's also a fish that HATES change in his tank. Change a bit of water? Hides in the anubis or rests against the filter intake. Move a plant around? Same thing. After 24 hours he seems to accept the change and come back out, hangs out on the coffeefolia leaves or the last silk plant that's in there, chases the endlers if they get too close to the feeding zone. Even adjusting the heater situation left him on the other side of the tank.
Putting him in a bigger tank probably means putting him in a more affected tank, by me moving things around, by other fish, by being off the desk zone perhaps. And these 5 gallons are quite nice, just a bit narrow.

Which means that those plans are now more like..

45g Mixed community
10g Plant Quarantine/Grow Tank
5g GG tank
5g Orion tank
2.5g Hospital tank

And somehow I've gone from 1 tank to 5 in less than 2 months. (I'm already at 3, so why not?! eek)
 

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I have to totally agree with your assessment of your fish situation. Now some people say that the behavior they show of not liking things moved around in the tank, and not liking change is crap. But I have noticed with all of mine if anything is out of placed or moved these boys pout and tend to have to re-explore their tank. Every one of my boys do this. two even let you know if anything is amiss. Little bee My black and yellow Mustard Gas rose tail will through a hissy fit if his thermometer comes loose and floats at the top of the tank. If I change a plant or move his rocks around even a little he pouts and hides for a couple of days until he realizes that nothing more was done. and he explores the tank for another couple of days. There is something to this and it's not crap. It's us knowing our betta and how they will react.

You now there could be more tanks (hint , hint) no you can never have too many tanks. Leaving this question to my wife her answer is always if you get one more tank I'm leaving. My response to her is always I'll help ya pack. She hasn't left yet and she never will because as much as she complains about my tanks She loves them too. especially when we get company and they comment on how much they like the tanks and fish. She'll tell them which are her favorite and the names she picked for all the boys. LOL And since I have a basement to fill she has no more complaints.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have to totally agree with your assessment of your fish situation. Now some people say that the behavior they show of not liking things moved around in the tank, and not liking change is crap. But I have noticed with all of mine if anything is out of placed or moved these boys pout and tend to have to re-explore their tank. Every one of my boys do this. two even let you know if anything is amiss. Little bee My black and yellow Mustard Gas rose tail will through a hissy fit if his thermometer comes loose and floats at the top of the tank. If I change a plant or move his rocks around even a little he pouts and hides for a couple of days until he realizes that nothing more was done. and he explores the tank for another couple of days. There is something to this and it's not crap. It's us knowing our betta and how they will react.

You now there could be more tanks (hint , hint) no you can never have too many tanks. Leaving this question to my wife her answer is always if you get one more tank I'm leaving. My response to her is always I'll help ya pack. She hasn't left yet and she never will because as much as she complains about my tanks She loves them too. especially when we get company and they comment on how much they like the tanks and fish. She'll tell them which are her favorite and the names she picked for all the boys. LOL And since I have a basement to fill she has no more complaints.
Well its good you can never have too many tanks because I just bought another 45g. It was on sale.. (oh gawd) and at such a reasonable price.. I could have bought 3 for the price I paid for the one arriving tomorrow! Not that I should give myself ideas. Anyhow...
I have the table/stand/desk space for it in my office but it might be boxed while I get the first one set up. And tell my hubby, lol.

I'm going to stop looking at tanks. It's just too tempting.

Today was a little better for Ori with some adjustments I made, but I took out his big silk plant and put in a medium Anubias. This was not ok with him. He went behind the heater and tried to hide himself. I freaked out. I put in a medium silk plant in the 'bare' spot to see if it was just the lack of coverage/water flow blockage. He went in to the far bottom corner and wedged himself there. Eeek! What the heck? Ok.. I took out the silk, left in the Anubias, and put the large silk plant back in.
Now everything is cool and he's back to strutting around the tank.

But how would that go in a 45?! You better believe more than a plant is going to be changed here and there.
The 2 rams and the angelfish when I messed with their tank today? I mean a complete redo of nearly all of the plants.. They thought it was great and have been checking it all out. Even GG is pretty calm with tank changes.

To each fish their own.. as you know, some of them really do notice their home setup more than others.

I hope hubby is as cool with this as your wife is, down the line. If we had a different setup I know we'd love something custom in the living area but.. no, that's a hard line for me. Way too much work and worry, especially when I'm gone for a few days.
At least for now, packages arrive, "More fishy stuff?" yeah... and it's all good. :D
 

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I think Ori is so funny. and yes he did notice and get his own way, didn't he. LOL. I saw a study about betta and in it they discussed this exact situation. They say betta have a memory of about 11 months. So you better get the changes done to Ori's tank rather fast and leave him pout for a few days . He will be back to his normal self in about a week. LOL
Well if Hubby does notice you could try that old But sweetheart that old tank I'v had it for ever routine. LOL (yeah it doesn't always work and it depends on how your dressed or not when you say it.) LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ori is certainly teaching me a lot. I suppose it might be a bit like living in a studio apartment and once or twice a week someone comes in and redoes all your furniture.
But everything worked where it was!

And after not even getting the first 45g going I think the second will be set aside for some time.
I enjoy the Betta quirkiness and personality but as you and others have pointed out sometimes, maybe a large majority even, they really just want their own little studio or 1 bedroom.
A 45g is like the Taj Mahal to them and it’s too much.

For now I’m thinking the angelfish and rams will get an upgrade. If everyone survives the 10g while this ones being setup. They will all get bigger and need the space, especially if the rams have paired.

Angel is very curious about everyone in the tank and outside the tank. Figuring out the best situation for all the fish is a bit of a work in progress.
 

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What you need to remember is that all betta have different personalities. Most of mine handle change very, very, well, but there have been one or two that didn't. In fact most love to poke around when I make changes to their tanks and check out what I'm doing. I've taken them out, overhauled the tank, and put them back in and they just swam around checking everything out.

What I am much more careful with is tank mates. I only use my 20 gal as a community tank and have had adjustment periods when I add new fish with the betta. Cinnabar lived in that tank, then RuPaul after Cinn passed away. So far I've been lucky and not had the betta become aggressive, but have had them glass surf till they learned that the new fish were not going to bother them. I currently have one that I would not dare put in the 20 gal, Lagniappe is very aggressive and would likely torment the raspbora and cory cats. I'd not try Corky in there either, he's on the timid side and due to being a twin tail has trouble swimming.

All that to say, feel free to add a betta to your 45 gal. I know you'd have a backup plan in case anything went wrong. If nothing else you could divide the tank and have a 5 to 10 gal section on one side and the remainder of the tank for your community. If you made a moss wall it'd probably blend in nearly seamlessly.

For shoals, and schools, you need a minimum of 6, of the same fish, for a proper shoal. I generally go with 8 that way I have time to buy new ones if any die. Currently, in the 20 gal community tank, I have 8 harlequin rasbora, 8 bronze cory cats, and a pk betta, along with a hoard of malaysian trumpet snails, some ramshorn snails, and 1 very mess, tiger nerite.

LOL sounds like you have MTS, multiple tank syndrome. Welcome to the club! You'll look around your house, spot a flat surface that could hold the weight of a tank, and start planning the next tank. I live in a very small apartment, and have learned that the kitchen counter is a nice place to have a 3 gal, and the dining room table that I never use is the perfect place for a 10 gal... I went from 1 tank to 5 tanks in around a year.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
They have incredibly different personalities. And that's why I adore them so.
Isn't it interesting though how some seem completely suited for a community tank and others might be the terror of the tank, no matter how big!

I will certainly try one out in the 45g, though I'm still not 100% sure who it will be.

MTS is right! Today I was given a young Betta too, for free. Who isn't looking very well and I really had to stop and think about that. Yes, I can set up a hospital tank for him but then what? I've gone from 1 betta to 0 to 4...
But I was feeling rather at my limit with 3 while I'm sorting out the 45g mess. It was a bit of a take him or let him die offer. :\

I think I may ask my friends if they'd like a Betta once he's well, they've been talking about getting a small tank. Though by the time he's well, if he gets well, I'm wondering if I'll feel like parting.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
They have incredibly different personalities. And that's why I adore them so.
Isn't it interesting though how some seem completely suited for a community tank and others might be the terror of the tank, no matter how big!

I will certainly try one out in the 45g, though I'm still not 100% sure who it will be.

MTS is right! Today I was given a young Betta too, for free. Who isn't looking very well and I really had to stop and think about that. Yes, I can set up a hospital tank for him but then what? I've gone from 1 betta to 0 to 4...
But I was feeling rather at my limit with 3 while I'm sorting out the 45g mess. It was a bit of a take him or let him die offer. :\

I think I may ask my friends if they'd like a Betta once he's well, they've been talking about getting a small tank. Though by the time he's well, if he gets well, I'm wondering if I'll feel like parting.
I also got some free Endlers.. those I can manage!
 

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MTS is so much fun. I think most of us old guys on her have this problem. (I think we handle it well. ) Me I just buy another tank I find on sale and then figure out where I'm going to put it. If I don't have a flat space I make one out in the shop. Every time I start for the shop my wife cringes. She knows what's coming next. and the bigger the stand the more she worries and shakes her head.

As I said MTS is great but add to it my betta addiction and well your starting to find out what that does. LOL It's nice to have a new club member. LOL
 
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