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I don't think an amupation is needed, especially when there are many precations to ate when taking forward with them, I myself would never recommend doing that, instead I would advise that you treat for the disease, along with heavy treatments if it progresses any further, from the pictures I have recently seen of your Betta it doesn't look progressed and a basic, sonstant treatment would best suit your problem


Symptoms
-Ripped tails, bloodshot, black edged, or has a fuzzy white appearance in the edge
-The Betta will become unusually inactive
-Won't eat
-Looks pale, and looses lots of color

Causes
This profilic disease is caused by stressful water conditions primarily but here are a few main examples of the conditions it is most likely found in

-Poor water quality with unacceptable amounts of ammonia, along with nitrites and nitrates
-Nippy tankmates
-Incompatible tankmates
-Tailbiting
-Plastic plants ripping fins constantly
-Over feeding
-Over crowding
-Sometimes after a disease, while the bettas immune system is low it can strike unexpectedly

Treatment

This disease is most commonly treated with mainly

-daily water changes of around 25-50 so more diseases dont settle in while the Betta is vulnerable
-a high quality fin rot treatment. Use tetracycline or Ampicillin for the best possible results
-Just raising the temperature to 80 also helps progress the healing of the fish's fins, With my personal experience

Prevention
-Keep the water clean
-don't over feed
-choose the right tankmates
-make sure that the bettas fins are always in the best shape
-keep the water heated
-change the water weekly
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
i dont think i need to on Antione. i was just thinking, if it DOES get really bad and medications werent working and whatnot and i did amputate his fins (dont think i could actually bring myself to do it) would he still be able to swim? hes been missing rays in his anal fin since i got him and i was thinking about how high up id have to go on those. it was more of a theoretical question. and just so theres answers for those who might need it. mostly just curiousity though :)

EDIT: judging by the symptoms you listed i dont think Antione has fin rot... i know they look bad but hes been eating fine, hes just as active as hes always been, his water is clean, and i just got done treating him for fin rot... although with more information now i dont think he ever had it... i think his fins are just curling because i have somewhat hard water... his anal fin like i said has been like that since i got him 2 weeks ago and doesnt seem to be getting worse. i thought part of it had gotten shorter, but that could just be because i didnt notice it... im not sure really. but he doesnt act sick
 

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This would be very difficult and dangerous (sharp scissors near a flailing betta?!).
Plus the tail would still be open to disease at that point.. the water would have to be pristine.. as it should be with any illness, so it'd basically be the same treatment as before.
 

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Only in dire situations would I recommend amputations, but usually by then It has already reached the base, there just are too many risks. Cutting the tail could leave it open to fin rot, which could react the base faster. Meaning that he couldn't swim, the stress from that would leave him open to other diseases, it can have a permanent effect on him, and you could possibly cut him on accident
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Wow, this disease is terrifying....
I'm so sorry for those of you who had to go through this, as well as the poor bettas....

:-(

Question....and I'm sorry if it's been asked/answered before....but....did anyone try taking a knife/scissors to the affected fins? I know some people are saying that it may be an internal infection that goes on to affect the exterior. But perhaps it would aid in the healing or chances of survival, just a thought....

I've had a weird disease sweep my male bettas. I have 18 of them, and I've had to do over 10 'fin trims'....three times on a couple of them. Out of every time, I've had success. One fish who I received very sickly (and never colored out quite right) had a problem growing his fins back, and died after a few months of being a sickly scared fish hiding all the the time. But all the others flourished, except the first guy who got the disease. He happened to be our favorite, and that is why we took no chances with the others who got the same/similar problem.

Whenever I see anything funky on the fins, I take sharp scissors to it, and I don't hesitate. If there is a lot, I will put them out on a cutting board with wet paper towels and give them quite the trim! Not for the faint of heart, but thought I would mention it for this disease in particular. Don't forget the salt bath after the op though;-)

I hope we can figure out what this affliction is. I'd be devastated if I lost my blue guy, Fishwish. Just devastated!

Will keep a watch on this post, for sure....
this is a post from the necropsy thread: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=90086&page=17
and the only reason i would even consider such a thing if it got bad enough
 

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Discussion Starter #7
...The way I do fin trims is get two paper towels, wet one, lay it down. Get your betta on the towel and wet the other (I use the aquarium water to dip it in) and use that one to hold the fish from flopping around. Two pairs of hands is easier. I also get a little cup or bowl of water handy in case I need to pour water on top to spread the fins out. Use aquarium water in this also. After the cutting (try and make as clean cuts as possible so it's easier to grow back), place the betta in same temperature treated water with lots of aquarium salt and betta revive. After 10 minutes, put them back in their hospital tank....fresh water with aquarium salt. Tannins/IAL/Betta Spa helps too! Make sure they have a plant or ornament to hide in, because this will stress them out slightly. They should be ok though, I haven't had a problem yet:)

Let us know how your other fish are!
also this one from the same thread

EDIT: please dont take this as ignoring your advice, i just want to get other opinions on it... and answers to my original questions of course
 

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As other people have stated, only people who are experts in bettas should attempt it, it's very dangerous and the wound will be open to infections.
I think is much better for you to deal with the decease than risk your betta's life by attempting it. So many things can go wrong.
I've been keeping/breeding for a few years now and I'm way too scared of the outcome to try. I considered it recently because I have a male who has very long fins and had dificulty swimming but I decided that if he wants them shorter, he can bite them off. He's bred and lives happily with his massive finnage so why risk my gorgeous boy with a dangerous procedure.
 

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I wouldn't with fin rot. Now, I used it when I had a disease out break and did not have any meds that could work. btw, IT IS HARD. D: If anyone were to do it, I so recommend knowing your clove oil amounts, to knock out the betta (remember too much will kill them)... But, my girl is all healed up, no disease, no signs of the "amputation". I probably will not do it again. If I do, it'll be a "we have no time and this will be my fourth blue male betta to die from it!" thing :/ Btw, I used an exacto knife. Sharp, clean. no scissors!

haha OMGemily, yeah THAT disease x.x :lol: If I knew I could do that, I would've tried. On Maine, at least :-(
 

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Nooo dont cut your bettas fins, try a aquarium salt and/or melafix (i like to use both) for a 7 to 10day treatment. Aquarium salt to kill any infections and melafix for faster fin growth and healing any open wounds/ulcers. ive done this several bettas of mine(normaly the ones i just bought from the store that looked really bad and i couldnt just let them sit there) So i would try this your betta should be looking better soon, most of mine took 5days and they started looking way better.
 

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my fish were on the crucial edge. THAT disease, nothing can stop it. only thing that can work, is kanaplex, or something similar, IF the fish survives longer than 24 hours which most do not... I had 2 that did. one pulled through but died after, because his organs failed, despite our efforts. If I had another blue betta, who had this terrible disease, I would resort to the amputate, AQ salt heavy dose, clean water, and kanaplex. Give them a longer time to survive... give the medicine time to work, and maybe, save a blue betta. I want a blue betta again - just I know between 1-4 months, if the betta is from this store, he dies from the disease because it is worked into his wonky genetics D:
 

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I haven't used AQ salt :3 again, except on Tina, but she is recovering really well on low doses. I'd never do more than 3 teaspoons per gallon, for 10-14 days as recommended.
 

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I do know trimming is recommended in cases of severe fin rot or caudal damage, but it's not something I've had to attempt thankfully.

I've always wondered if it's better to sedate a fish first with clove oil before attempting it, as I can imagine being taken out of the water and then having parts of its tail/fins removed is not very pleasant for the betta. I believe they do also have some feeling in their fins, but someone feel free to correct me.

You also have to watch for signs of infection, as you have in actuality just created a wound that bacteria could possibly take advantage of.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
i know there are other, less risky ways, and i know its kind of a last resort thing for SEVERE cases, and that it would require some major care afterwards. and i dont think i could do it even if i thought i needed to. but hypothetically say that was like, the only way he could survive or something, those of you who have had to resort to it, could he still swim, if it was on all of his fins? i dont plan on doing this, i know the precautions, and this is purely hypothetical. im just curious is all
 

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sedating would be better... like I said, know your doses and you could potentially do it, if need be :)

For my betta, when I had to do it, it was on two parts: caudal and dorsal. She had to get used to not having all fins, but she could swim.

In similarity to amputating all fins, if need be, it would be closest to a fish getting his/her fins chewed up - either from fin rot, or another fish. I had Reggie and Shiloh, both who had been attacked and their fins a mess, or non-existent. It was hard for them to swim, or at least navigate around corners and turns....

If one were to do this, on all fins, the larger the space the better (to avoid infections that would come easier in a smaller space that collects ammonia faster), however, they'd need to keep it shallow enough for the betta to reach the surface if he had troubles swimming :)

just my input =D

edit: not for the faint of heart, and not for fragile-immune-system bettas. Last you need, is a very very sick betta to get more sick from stress, being out of water, and (another) open wound.
 

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Amputation? Ouch! ><
I would be too afraid to do it unless
it was the only way to save the fish.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
sedating would be better... like I said, know your doses and you could potentially do it, if need be :)

For my betta, when I had to do it, it was on two parts: caudal and dorsal. She had to get used to not having all fins, but she could swim.

In similarity to amputating all fins, if need be, it would be closest to a fish getting his/her fins chewed up - either from fin rot, or another fish. I had Reggie and Shiloh, both who had been attacked and their fins a mess, or non-existent. It was hard for them to swim, or at least navigate around corners and turns....

If one were to do this, on all fins, the larger the space the better (to avoid infections that would come easier in a smaller space that collects ammonia faster), however, they'd need to keep it shallow enough for the betta to reach the surface if he had troubles swimming :)

just my input =D

edit: not for the faint of heart, and not for fragile-immune-system bettas. Last you need, is a very very sick betta to get more sick from stress, being out of water, and (another) open wound.

thank you :) that answered my question haha

Amputation? Ouch! ><
I would be too afraid to do it unless
it was the only way to save the fish.
same here... i kind of think of it as euthanesia... only if ABSOLUTELY necessary
 

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Exactly. Like I said... I really REALLY want a blue betta again :-( but I know if I do, from this store, I have now... what...70% chance they have that terrible disease? And dare I get one, I will do this to keep him alive long enough for meds to help, keep it from spreading and attempt the next-to-impossible: own a blue betta :-(
 
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