[KasaraWolf]

Okay so today, I couldn't help myself when I found a rather large, depressed King Betta in a really tiny dirty cup at Petco today. The fish is WAY bigger than the other Kings that they sell there, absolutely massive. Now makes my Orlando look like a Dwarf :lol:

Put the "little" guy into a tank...and DARN did he/she perk up! At the moment, she/he can't stop moving, going from one side of the tank to the next.

But...I seem to be a bit confused. Is my little Goliath a King...or a Queen?

I don't really see a beard on Goliath and he/she wouldn't flare when my male betta next to him/her was flaring. Acts a lot like my female Betta, personality and energy wise. I think he/she may have an egg spot, but its hard to tell when Goliath won't stay still XDD!!

What do you guys think?

 

[EvilVOG]

Looks like a male looking at that anal fin. Looks like my boys. Give him some time he's probably used to seeing other bettas and may not flare till after he's spent some time alone.

 

[MrVampire181]

That is a boy

 

[KasaraWolf]

Thanks guys! I am glad to know that Goliath is a man! :lol: I just put him in a cup while cleaning his tank and had him floating with another male for a second and he flared right up! XDD

Also, just wondering, are King Betta's basically monstrous Plakats? :lol: And if he is big, does that mean he's a bit older than other pet store betta's?

 

[EvilVOG]

King bettas are just big plakats, mostly due to feeding and upbringing, and not genetics, or so i'm told.

probably at least a month or two older than your average pet store fish.

 

[KasaraWolf]

King bettas are just big plakats, mostly due to feeding and upbringing, and not genetics, or so i'm told.

probably at least a month or two older than your average pet store fish.

Awesome! Thank you~!

 

[Hallyx]

King bettas are just big plakats, mostly due to feeding and upbringing, and not genetics, or so i'm told.

probably at least a month or two older than your average pet store fish.

I'm truly surprised to hear you say that, VOG, your being a breeder of giant Betta.

No commercial breeder is going to willingly keep fish any longer than the minimum to assure their viability; not good business, otherwise. So they're not likely old plakats.

As for their size, breeders who try to breed "giant" fish will experience more or less success based on factors of which you are keenly aware; some environmental, some genetic.

My research indicates that giantism is, in fact, a genetic characteristic. But it's not as simple as a single giant gene, but rather several genes, their expression, interaction and timing which produce giants. That's why it's so difficult to get consistently large fish. This trait or traits causes similar effects throughout the animal kingdom.

 

[Myates]

Ventrals seem too long to be a female..
I have to agree, Vog, unsure what you are saying since you say you breed them lol but kings aren't genetically stable.. usually giant hybrids. Hard to breed to get an actual king.

 

[Hallyx]

Right, Myates, but not just unstable. I doubt you could describe the output of a giant spawn with a simple Punnett square; maybe one of those four-square squares. Maybe it's more complicated, having to do with the gene-combo that regulates the timing of the development of the thyroid, like in other chordates, even other inverts.

VOG, you bred giant/giant, right? What was the size breakdown of the spawn? I'll bet if you bred those same two fish, you'd get different results.

And then if a giant breeder back-crosses to get other traits (color, finnage, scalage) it becomes even more complicated with fewer giant issue.

My point: "King" is Petco's trade name for their giant Betta. Their suppliers are doing the best they can to produce large fish. And they're putting them out as fast as they can, I'm sure.

 

[ravenwinds]

I would have to agree with Hallyx and Myates....it cannot be all environment, otherwise I would be able to turn all 40 of my orange dot spawn into giants by feeding them enough of certain things and ensuring space and time....that probably won't happen...instead I will get 40 normal sized bettas, perhaps one or two outside of norm. It is more likely that the giants were produced in same way as giant breed dogs: taking largest puppies and breeding back into line.

I do have a question...in researching my gourami and their spawn, I came across mention of and a picture of a giant betta...not betta splendens, I forgot species name...referred to commonly as giant betta; listed as a good community fish; very pretty; definitely NOT betta plakat...has anybody heard of this fish or have this fish? I think it was aquatic community where I found this info...Google searches turn up the giant plakat with little or no reference to this other species but the forum made it sound as if this species is fairly available for the aquarium...

 

[Hallyx]

Betta Raja, Betta Enisae, Betta Pi and many of the mouthbrooders are rather large, >2.5inch bodies. And, I think most mouthbrooders are relatively peaceful.

LittleBettaFish from Ausrtralia knows more about wilds than anybody here, I think.

 

[MrVampire181]

Betta Raja and splendens cannot interbreed.

Environment does play a role in adult size. V. Parnell theorized that the stunting hormone from fry actually works so the fish won't outgrow it's environment.

If it was genetic, kings would be producing bigger fish. When spawned they produce regular sized bettas even when bred back to the king parent.

 

[Hallyx]

Betta Raja and splendens cannot interbreed.

Roger that. ;-}

Environment does play a role in adult size. ... the stunting hormone ... works so the fish won't outgrow it's environment.

Undoubtedly a major influence in size is getting the big ones (especially) into their own tanks. That still will not ensure a larger next generation (Darwin proved Lamarck wrong).

If it was genetic, kings would be producing bigger fish. When spawned they produce regular sized bettas even when bred back to the king parent.

By the same token, it may well be that breeding a "normal" sized fish with its giant parent might be the combination that produces larger progeny.

There is a maximum size limitation to any organism. It's why we don't have 20 foot tall horses and 400 pound dogs. But breeders of all species have tried to expand the envelope of size. They rely on complicated genetics and gene manipulation, either natural or laboratory techniques. And even when trying to producing the largest steer, cattle breeders still wind up with a surplus of more or less normal size cows. Giant genetics, as any genetics, is very complicated, even obscure. That doesn't mean that it is not genetics.

 

[Hallyx]

Apparently, Jim Sonnier disagrees somewhat with my assessment of the complexity of giant breeding.
Giant Betta Fish History - Breeding Betta Fish | Betta Fish Care | Betta Fish for Sale

I'd sure like to hear from EvilVOG and Junglist, giant breeders on this forum.