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Discussion Starter #1
Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 6 Gallon Fluval Edge
Does it have a filter? Stock Fluval edge filter
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 75 Deg F
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Just the filter return
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? Lightly planted

Food:
What food brand do you use? Tetra
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Both
Freeze-dried? Not sure
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? 4 or so pellets or a pinch of flakes, once a day, when I remember. I've always followed the 'it's better to forget to feed than over feed' mantra.

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? About once month, but sometimes I forget.
What percentage of water did you change? About 1/3
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Vacuum, but the edge makes it hard to reach much of the aquarium
What additives do you use? 0.6cc prime. macro and micro plant nutrients, 'liquid co2' plant supplement.

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you.

Ammonia:< 0.25ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: < 5.0 ppm
pH: 7.6-7.8
Hardness (GH): u.t.o
Alkalinity (KH): 9 dKH

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? I noticed he was having trouble seeing his food about a month ago, but I assumed he was just getting old (he's 3 years). In retrospect he was probably getting Popeye. I thought I saw a cloudy eye, but I don't specifically recall, the cloudy look in the photo is primarily camera flash I think. His eyes do look bulged though, now that I've researched Popeye I notice it, but I think it occurred to me before I heard of Popeye that his eyes looked bulged, but I didn't think much of it at the time. Last week he took to laying on his side in the sand looking dead, but he moves quite quickly if you disturb him, then goes and lies down in another corner.
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? The eyes Are bulged. His color is probably subdued too.
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? Lethargic
Is your Betta still eating? NO he hasn't eaten in over a week, I tried tweezing food right in front of him, but he won't take it.
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? I've done 1/3 water changes 3 times in the last week. I should have checked levels before I did, but I know the tank was passed due. The pH may have gotten up to 8.2, but it's back at 7.6-7.8 now. I've been dosing the tank with 250mg penicillin per day, for three days. Not seeing any improvement. I read elsewhere PCN was virtually useless in an aquarium.
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? No. He's always been happy go lucky.
How long have you owned your Betta? 3 years Was he or she a rescue? If you classify buying from the cups in petsmart rescue :/

PLEASE PROVIDE CLEAR PHOTOS

NOTE: EMBED YOUR PHOTOS INSTEAD OF LINKING. Click on "Go Advanced" and then on the paper clip in the toolbar.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
More pics

Here's an overall of the tank. I tried to coax him into the open so I could get a better pic, but he wasn't having it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sorry, one other thing that might be helpful. The aquarium light failed just before this started. Not sure if it's related or not, but a lot of algae died off quite suddenly.
 

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You will need a hospital tank or preferably a 1 gallon food container. I would get Jungle fungus clear, Kanaplex and unscented, 100 percent epsom salt.
If you dose your current tank with drugs after using penicillin it would likely overdose him on the drugs.

First day jungle fungus clear dosed to suit the size container you are using
you will continue both rounds of the Jungle fungus clear as stated on the package. Later in the day add 1/2 teaspoon of Espsom salt
2nd day dose with Kanaplex but at 1/3 of whatever the full dose is for the size container you are using. The next morning add the remainder of the dose (you will still be combining this with the JFC) Add another 1/2 teaspoon of espsom salt. The idea behind the initial reduced dosage is to avoid shocking the fish. Continue with Kanplex until his eyes clear up. You can stop the JFC after the 2 rounds. You will need to change the water and refresh the medicine every other day so waste does not build up. Keep cleaning his tank and improving the water quality. Normally your would use the regular tank water for the hospital tank however it has drugs in it and the water quality is low. You might want to do half tank water and half new water and drip acclimate him to it tonight and then start the meds in the morning. Rapid changes in water quality will shock him as well so it has to be slow.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Jada, thanks for responding. I looked to see if jungle fungus clear was available near me (Walmart, petco, petsmart) and it isn't. I could order online if I have to, but is it another antibiotic that might be sold nearby under a different brand? In the meantime, is there any harm in starting Epsom salts in the same tank with the PCN? I'm starting to think the PCN isn't going to work, but I know you aren't supposed to stop until 5 days or more, so if I had to wait to get jungle fungus in the mail I'd probably want to keep dosing PCN in the original tank before moving to hospital tank?
 

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Hi


How many gallons is your tank? 6 Gallon Fluval Edge
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? About once month, but sometimes I forget.
If the tank is cycled minimum once a week water change of 50%. There is NO forgetting.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
On second reading it looks like kanaplex is an antibiotic, but I'd have to get that in the mail too by the looks of it. So I guess I'm back to asking is there any harm in adding Epsom salts with the PCN while I wait on the mail?
 

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It won't harm them. You might call a small fish store sometimes they stock it. I can post the ingredients for fungus clear if you want you might have some version of it there.
 

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Yeah, that would be really helpful, I can get the kamaplex on Amazon, so I'm going to order that, they have the fungus clear too but they won't ship it unless my order is over $25 and the kamaplex is only $9 arghh. In the meantime I'll get the epsom salt locally.
 

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look for 100% unscented. You can usually find it at pharmacy it's good for sprains in humans so you might find it near the ace bandages. I would stop the penicillan I noticed how much you are giving him. I would think that would give him organ failure. Start doing daily small water changes and clean the tank up. What do you mean the edge makes it hard to vacumn the aquarium?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The opening in the Fluval edge is only maybe 6" wide, so it's hard to reach the corners of the tank with the vacuum, especially with the lava rocks. It's a cool looking tank, but in retrospect it's not the easiest to maintain. He's done well in it for 3 years though. I kinda think what happened is the algae died off when the light failed and the rotting algae probably ruined the water quality.

I ordered the kenaplex, I'll pick up Epsom salt in the morning, and see if I can find jungle clear or similar locally too.
 

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On the penicillin dose, 250 for 10 gallons was what I read elsewhere. I'd have split the does even lower because I'm only 6 gallons, but I'm already breaking 500mg in half to get the 250 so it would be hard to quarter it, the tablets are pretty small to begin with. It also just occurred to me I've been dosing the antibiotic with the carbon filter in, so for all I know the filter has been clearing most if not all of it before it's had a chance to work :/ Either that or it is in fact not working on whatever bacteria he's infected with. The internet is so filled with contradictions, I'm really just guessing at what to do.
 

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Sorry my point of reference is that they give that size dose to humans and you are dealing with a little fish. That being said I have not used penicillin for fish before.

However, I did a search and for whatever reason they seem be using that dose on fish. Your fish looks to be in bad shape. You can order the Kanaplex-but I know in some countries Fish mox (amoxicillin) is easier to get. It's broad spectrum and so is Kanaplex. I don't know if it's just as effective but faster treatment would be best. So that might be another choice.

http://www.fishmoxfishflex.com/index.php/fish-mox-amoxicillin.html

Maybe you can get amoxicillin locally and follow the regimen they suggest in the ink above if the Kanaplex is going to take a long time.
 

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Thanks so much for your help jada. I expedited the delivery on the kenaplex, so it should be here Thursday or Friday. Hopefully he can hang in there. From the little I know of antibiotics, amoxicillin and penicillin are in the same family, so if one isn't working I don't think the other would. I have doxycycline on hand too, I suppose I could give that a shot if all else fails, but I don't want to be mixing medicines, so I'll wait an try the kenaplex regiment when it gets here. Hopefully the Epsom salts start helping before then.

Am I right in thinking that the carbon filter needs to come out for the antibiotics to have any chance of working though?

Thanks again for all your help, whatever happens... Poor fish. If he survives this I'll change his water more often.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
No methylene blue. Not sure what that is to be honest.

I will certainly be reading the link, that looks like good info. I also found that in humans kenamycin (kenaplex) and penicillin are used in combination when they don't know what bacteria they are fighting is, so that makes me feel better about switching to the kenaplex, since it sounds like they aren't going to have adverse interactions having been on penicillin to date.
 

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If you really get to reading his site (which I generally like and has been very helpful) The one piece of advice he gives that I don't think is useful is using regular AQ salt in a bath for fish with dropsy or even a fish in the condition your fish is in. Epsom is better for swelling and fluid build up. That the one thing I would skip. Otherwise, most advice he gives I've tried at some point and is sound. I tried the Nitrofurorzone (same thing as fungus clear) Kanmycin and epsom salt treatment before and really got good results. The theory is that kanamycin which can be absorbed via the skin acts as a carrier for the Nitro.
 

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I have been, it's fascinating. I'm tempted to try the doxycycline, which I understand to be in the tetracycline family, while I wait for the kenamycin to get here. It sounds like the kenamycin is going to be the better bet, and doxy is unfortunately not on his list, so I'd be guessing at how it would workout in an aquarium. I'll probably just wait until the kenamycin gets here. I just hope Drogon, reincarnation of Balerion the Black Dread, can hang on another couple of days. I'll let you know how it works out.
 
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