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Cycling your uncycled tank without trying

3605 Views 74 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  LittleBlueFishlets
Taken from another thread

People who keep uncycled tanks are essentially doing a perpetual fish-in cycle (ironic, considering how out of favor that method is). While they may not be completing their cycle, it's nonetheless got an enormous impact on their aquarium.
OK, let's go with this. I'd be interested in seeing more information about this.

A common recommendation in this forum is that 1-4 gal unfiltered tanks should receive one 100% and one 50% water change per week. Many members have tanks in this size range (myself included). So I'd like to know if this is an appropriate recommendation. I'd also like to learn more about how following this water change schedule (rather than cycling the tank) impacts the aquarium and the fish in it. I'd also like to learn how the water in a water-change-only-schedule compares to that of a cycled 1-4 gal tank.

Which leads me to my next question: Many people say it's difficult to cycle a small (1-4 gal tank). Is this true? What can be done to allow people with 1-4 gal tanks to cycle their tank? (Please keep in mind that simple solutions are best. Based on my observations, many members of BF.com are young or don't have a lot of experience with fishkeeping and/or access to expensive equipment.)
For those that keep their fish in uncycled tanks, you can cycle your tank in one easy step......add a filter. You can continue to do everything exactly the same way as you always have - just don't touch your filter for 6-8 weeks to allow the beneficial bacteria to establish itself. You can still be as meticulous as you like about cleaning everything....except the filter.

This is why - the water change schedule that you follow to keep the fish alive in an uncycled tank is exactly what's needed to keep the fish alive during a fishless cycle. The only difference between the two is that a fishless cycle comes to an end resulting in constant 0 ammonia. The ONLY thing preventing an uncycled tank requiring constant water changes to prevent the fish from getting sick and dying from becoming a cycled tank with stable water quality that is capable of going without water changes for extended periods of time is a filter. Not that one should strive to not change their fish's water, but it sure is nice to not be a slave to it. There is certainly a great peace of mind knowing that my fish won't die if I don't get a chance to change the water for a period of time. It's nice to know that I can go away for 2 weeks and know my fish are in no danger. And really, the constant 0 ammonia is better for the fish's health than indefinite spikes, however small they may be.

The difference between a water change schedule for a cycled vs uncycled tank can be nothing at all, or it can be immense. You are certainly welcome to continue the 2-3 changes a week if you like. Or you can go 2-3 weeks if you want. 1-2 weeks is pretty standard advice, and by standard I mean cookie cutter. For example, a betta in a planted 10 gallon tank most certainly does not require weekly water changes. The impact of the uncycled tank water change recommendation on the tank is profound - it keeps the fish alive. It keeps ammonia from creeping up to lethal levels. That's exactly what must be done during a fish-in cycle.

It wasn't too long ago that the prevailing view here was that tanks under 5 gallons couldn't be cycled. I was shocked. Thankfully that is no longer the case - saying it's harder to cycle a small tank rather than impossible is a nice compromise I suppose. It's not any harder to cycle a tank than it is to maintain an uncycled tank. The cycle is also not any more difficult to maintain than a larger tank - it's all proportional.

Filters needn't be expensive. The Azoo palm mini HOB is a terrific filter for a small tank that costs $7 from foster and smith. Of course if that were the only thing you were buying youd have to pay shipping too, but if you can wait until there are more things you need, there is no better deal out there. I run one on my 2.5 gallon on full flow (its adjustable). Too, you can break off fins from the impeller to slow the flow even more, down to a trickle - good for a 1 gallon or less. Actually fitting the filter to the tank might prove to be a challenge though, but certainly possible in many cases. Otherwise, there are sponge filters. Lots of people love them, and I'll let them explain why since I do not like them. Too, there are some internal nano filters to which I've seen people give good reviews. I have no experience with them so that's all I will say. However, one of the great things about the HOB is that it gets the filter out of the tank, and in small tanks where there is limited space, I don't want the filter taking up space inside the tank.
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Thank you for posting this! I'm using a sponge filter in my 2.5 gallon and have been hoping my tank would just cycle itself like I've heard they do with fish in the tank. It's been a month and I'm still getting ammonia when I test it but I see that it may be a few more weeks yet till it cycles, hopefully.
It takes time - in some cases up to 3 months. Too, an individuals water chemistry can play a large role in cycling, so that's something to look at if you are having trouble. Some people are blessed with better water than others, and those with such issues should seek special help to figure out a solution, rather than follow a guide. If you are still showing ammonia after a month, I would start a thread providing as much info as you can so we can see what's what.
I had wondered about this before too. A lot of people seemed to say it is hard- but I didn't see how a smaller tank would stop beneficial bacteria growing in a filter if there's water and a source of ammonia.
I had wondered about this before too. A lot of people seemed to say it is hard- but I didn't see how a smaller tank would stop beneficial bacteria growing in a filter if there's water and a source of ammonia.

You can cycle a cup if you really wanted to lol. I'd say that would have to be a planted tank as I'm fairly certain no company has found a market in "cup" appropriate filters .. I could be wrong ;-) measuring prime for your water would be really absurd too . Just throwing it out there that it can be done .. Stock? Some type if itty bitty snail ?


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I am beginning to be jealous of other ppl's water. :) I've been attempting to cycle a 29 gallon and a 10 gallon. Ironically, my 2.5 gallon minibow that I had before, cycled with no problem. And everyone told me that IT would be much harder to cycle than the larger tanks. pfft i say.
OK, you've made a convincing argument. :) So say I want to get Azoo palm mini HOB filters for my tanks. (Because I know you're right - having a filter will improve the water quality in my tank, which in turn will keep my Bettas healthier.)

1) Will the Azoo palm mini HOB fit on a acrylic tank with a snap-on plastic lid (such as a critter keeper or one of those small plastic tanks that Petsmart/Petco sells)?

2) What else (besides the Azoo filter) do I need to buy? (plastic tubing? pump? etc? replacement pads?) Knowing this will allow us to buy everything at once.

Then, once I have it set up:

3) How often do I need to change the filter pads? How simple/difficult is this?

4) How often do I need to test the water parameters? Do I need to test ammonia, nitrates and nitrites?

5) What if someone doesn't own a testing kit? Can they just do, say 50% weekly water changes, and assume that the filter is making their water cleaner? (This goes back to your poll of how much people want to know about their tanks. Some people will want to do daily water testing, others won't.)
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The filter would fit but you'd need to do some mods to the critter keeper lid if you wanted it.

The only thing you need are replacement sponges for when the time comes, otherwise it comes with everything you need!

Changing filter pads is simple, you keep the pad in there until it's literally breaking apart. Once it starts to really get nasty, squeeze a fresh sponge in with the old one and let it sit for two weeks to become seeded; at that point you can take out the old one. To increase sponge life, when you do a water change simply squeeze out the sponge in old tank water and swish it around, this cleans it of gunk and keeps the filter running properly while extending its life.

You're supposed to test weekly but it depends, if you're cycling a tank then it's best to try to test daily to make sure everything is in check since you'd be doing a fish in cycle at this point I'm assuming? After the cycle, you should test fairly regularly although I never really do unless it looks like something is off. But if you do your weekly/bi weekly changes depending on tank size, there shouldn't be huge issues.

If you don't own a kit, you can take a sample to a store and they can test it; ask for specific numbers though. But techncially, yes they could continue on their merry way of doing twice weekly changes :)

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Also on the item of cycling, I didn't read the entirety of the first post but I've run into this thing where bacteria go dormant in pH's under ~7.2. My pH is readily around 6.5 which means I cannot cycle my tanks without buffering them, in this case, having a planted tank is convenient, as the plants establish themselves they will take care of the excess ammonia. But this is just my issue is all.
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(Note: I'm trying to make this as inclusive as possible.... I want to find a way that even people who don't want to spend a lot of time with "tank mechanics" (Ie: they've chosen a low number on Jaysee's poll on the other thread) can set this up.)
OK, you've made a convincing argument. :) So say I want to get Azoo palm mini HOB filters for my tanks. (Because I know you're right - having a filter will improve the water quality in my tank, which in turn will keep my Bettas healthier.)

1) Will the Azoo palm mini HOB fit on a acrylic tank with a snap-on plastic lid (such as a critter keeper or one of those small plastic tanks that Petsmart/Petco sells)?

2) What else (besides the Azoo filter) do I need to buy? (plastic tubing? pump? etc? replacement pads?) Knowing this will allow us to buy everything at once.

Then, once I have it set up:

3) How often do I need to change the filter pads? How simple/difficult is this?

4) How often do I need to test the water parameters? Do I need to test ammonia, nitrates and nitrites?

5) What if someone doesn't own a testing kit? Can they just do, say 50% weekly water changes, and assume that the filter is making their water cleaner? (This goes back to your poll of how much people want to know about their tanks. Some people will want to do daily water testing, others won't.)
1. Yes, though it will require customization. You will have to cut through the plastic on the hood for the filter to hang, which will likely reqiure the removal of the pin that holds the lid on to the tank. The lid will function just the same without being attached to the tank, and I think you'll find it easier to work with the tank that way. I'm sure there are some kinds that are designed in such a way that it will not accommodate the filter, such as if the lighting element prevents you from being able to cut into the hood.

2. All you need to buy, besides the filter, is a pack of Aquaclear20 sponges to use for media. It comes with media, but the sponge is an improvement over the pads it comes with. Too, you can use a piece of the sponge as a prefilter, over the intake strainer. The sponge is just real handy.

3. I have never once changed the sponge. The pads do lose their integrity over time, and need to be replaced. There is room in the filter to place the new pad, so that it can get seeded before you toss the old one. However, you can get several washes from a pad before it starts to fall apart. Its just way easier to use sponge. It cuts easy - cut the sponge to fit the filter, and then cut that in half - now you cam clean half of the media at a time and not risk damaging your cycle. Too, now you have a piece of seeded media you can remove from the tank to get an instant cycle on a new tank. You shouldnt have to clean the filter media very often. I clean mine once or twice a year. Not that thats what everyone should go do. If you have plants you'll likely have to clean more often than that as plant matter can clog things up a lot faster than one fishs poop. Once a month cleanings would be as aggressive a schedule as I would recommend.

Its very easy to do - lift the lid, pull the media out with your fingers. You don't even have to turn off the filter. Just go slow when putting it back in - jam in it fast and water will overflow from the filter.

4. Once your tank is cycled you don't HAVE to test for anything really. Its good to keep testing though, until you're familiar and comfortable. Eventually you will get tired of testing for ammonia and nitrite and getting 0s for both, and the frequency with which you test will diminish. Many people with cycled tanks never test their water. Nitrates you can test for - you can see how quickly it accumulates in the tank and you can use that to determine your water change schedule. Common advise is to keep nitrates lower than 40. Some take it a little further and say 20 ppm. Regardless, you can use that as a mark for when to change the water. You'll find the rate of nitrate production to be constant, so if it takes 2 weeks to get to 20 ppm this time, it's going to take 2 weeks next time too. Once you settle into your water change schedule, testing for nitrates isn't all that important.

5. You don't NEED to test if you are going to just stick to a schedule. Its certainly valuable for knowing when your tank has cycled, but after that, yes, just doing a weekly 50% water change and trusting the filter is doing it's job is all thats needed. For someone new to filters, it will be tough to trust at first. But in time you will, and you won't even think about it.
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well put!

i HIGHLY recommend a small sponge filter.

it did take about 2 months for my 2.5g to cycle. but now i dont worry about such frequent water changes and i dont have to worry about Hades getting sick :-D
(Note: I'm trying to make this as inclusive as possible.... I want to find a way that even people who don't want to spend a lot of time with "tank mechanics" (Ie: they've chosen a low number on Jaysee's poll on the other thread) can set this up.)
Hahaha, now thats funny... people choosing low numbers. You know, I made the poll anonymous as to encourage those that would only rate themselves lower than 5 to vote without fear of being labeled as someone who "doesn't care".
Yes.. Ammonia turns to ammonium at 6.5ph which can effectively stall a cycle .. Which then raising your KH would assist .. But let's not hope too many battle with that . 6.6+ should all be fine as this does not happen at all then .


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Yeah, with my area we all have to battle with it here :-/ at my dad's it was a steady 6.2 from the tap, I have to recheck my water here at mom's but I know it's below the 7.2 drop off point as well. Not even the fact that ammonia turns to ammonium but the bacteria go dormant under ~7.2, that's my issue.
The bacterias efficiency is tied to pH - the higher the more efficient. As the pH drops so does efficiency, which means a larger bacteria colony is required to do the same job. To counter this, flow rate and/or volume of media must be increased. 7.2 is definitely not the cut off point for BB - they function all the way down into the mid to low 6s.

If the bacteria went dormant at 7.2 all my fish would be dead.
Then why is it that everywhere I read says all the same thing that under 7.0 the bacteria go dormant. I'll try to find my sources later, currently doing other things.
I certainly have difficulty here with cycling tanks because our water comes out of the tap with the lowest KH value possible on the API test kit and the pH drops down to at least 6 in about 24 hours, meaning you have to add something like crushed coral if you want the pH to hold stable.

I have to be careful when doing large water changes on my goldfish tank (the only tank in the house that is cycled) because I have had a couple of pH crashes that caused my cycle to stall and my ammonia levels to spike.

I have tanks that were cycled with a pH around 6.8. But I think once you start to go below that, you will certainly run into trouble.
I'm curious LBF.. Have you tried to buffer the KH in your other tanks then transfer a proper portion if filter media to instant cycle ? I'm not sure how that could fail ... But I'm sure it could . Just curious if you tried ,

I have not had to cycle a tank in yrs . Last time I had to was after losing my home in a fire .. Therefor I did not have the luxury if transferring mature media . I only vaguely remember the hardship of constant perameter Checking and water changing . Kinda like child birth ... You don't remember the pain till you're having the next .ive starting many a tank since that restart with instant cycling ., I'm willing to bet if you tried that as long as your PH wasn't 6.5 or less then you should be good ..


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Yeah my goldfish tank is kept permanently buffered with crushed coral in the filter. I used to use seeded media from that to kick-start cycles in my other tanks when I needed to.

However, before I realised the effect pH can have on a tank cycle I had a hell of a time trying to just get the whole process started.

Now I just keep wild bettas and their pH is so low that it inhibits the growth of beneficial bacteria, so I use plants instead to act as my living filter and don't have any issues.
Then why is it that everywhere I read says all the same thing that under 7.0 the bacteria go dormant. I'll try to find my sources later, currently doing other things.

My guess would be same as all bad info that spreads rampantly . It's parroted by new fish keepers who didn't know the whys behind it nor the importance of the exact numbers .. For instance someone heard a low PH value of 6.5 could stall a cycle because the ammonia *and they stopped listening here*. They see someone coming along with a mid 6s PH and trouble cycling .. Thinking they were being helpful told them anything below a PH of 7 would stall a cycle . Sure .. Because naturally 7 is easier to say then 6.5.. And to someone fresh to this the difference between those values are not understood . Now after this this next newbie repeats and spreads this erroneous misinformation ... Meaning to help .. But this is what happens when we don't research further .. And double check our sources .


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