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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone!

Well days ago I got a really nice even finned HMPK super red pair from a really great person on AB. I released them to each other and today is the second day of them being together.

The male and female (when FIRST released) went head on flaring at each other then doing the "Betta Dance" (a snake like pattern of movement shared between either one or both the male and female bettas while in the process of courtship) in other words, they were wiggling back and forth. Now the female was nipped a few times (not severely) and she isn't Petrified of the male, but she is doing the natural swim away that they would usually do. She can hid under the heater for hours until the male chases her and tries to lure her.

The male has been trying to lure her to the nest since they were released so he is definitely ready. Now on the other hand the female is not convinced that he will be "Gentle." He gets frustrated because she turns her caudal to him and he chases her. This is normal behavior and yes I know they usually spawn in the matter of 3-4 days averagely, but I was wondering,

Long story short...IS there a way to encourage the female to spawn with the male?

I had somewhat the same problem with Korra and Draco. Korra was ready, but Draco was not trying to spawn. Now it is the usual other way around.

Has anyone had any experience with actually encouraging the female to spawn with the male? I have heard of using live foods, but all I have is BBS eggs and very few milimeters in a vial until I can find a way to get more.

P.S.
Sorry for writing a whole story!
 

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yeh, could someone have a way to encourage the female to spawn??
cause i also have this kind of problem, my female suddenly release her eggs while there is no male, so now im trying to spawn her woth my male but she refuse -__-"
 

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The best way to encourage the female is good care - healthy and aggressive females will take bites lightly and will not hide for long....even if it kills them.

But once they're together, there's nothing you can do but wait. Good hiding places is safer for the female, but may make the process longer since the female can hide as long as she pleases. Less hiding places or hide outs where the male can go to should make the process faster but risky for the female.

@xrein: females releasing eggs is normal. I just got a female and it released eggs for about 4 days. She will flirt when ever flared ... but I don't plan to breed her anytime soon. Give these females a week or so (safer) while you condition her with (preferably) non worm live foods.
Always flare your pair to see if they flirt swim. Sometimes they will immediately flirt swim when you toss them in the breeding tank. But not always.

Lately many of my girls (my own spawning) wont spawn. They flirt swim and everything, but they never get to the embrace phase. Patience is important because it may avoid their death. I mean don't force them to spawn. IMO it's better to make them want to spawn - healthy and aggressive.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
@indo: Thank you. She was aggressive. She still is healthy. What is currently going on is that she would sit under the heater and he has been trying to lure her for three days now since the first day of introduction. She doesn't just swim off panting or anything, but she will wait until he is pretty close to turn her head and face her caudal at him. Then he gets frustrated and nudges her with his mouth open on her odd, but doesn't nip her body. Her fins aren't bad either so I would say that she is "stubborn" and he is one of the most "gentle" males I have had that were HMPK.

In this predicament, what would you do?

@Edifiler: I already have IAL in the tank with the IAL extract making the tank a nice amber color.
 

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I am currently having this problem as well. The female is health and he has been very gentle with her. The water is tanned and she'll go check out the nest, but turns back part way and then he chases her. They've been together for two days I think. She has one little nip in her fin anal fin and that's all so I'm leaving them together. He is continually adding to the nest and chasing her, so that seems like a good sign. She was VERY flirty when in her chimney, so I thought they'd be quick. If they don't spawn in the next 4 days I'll re-condition and try again.
 

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@indjo: what do you mean in "non worm live foods?"
but i thought, live foods are best for conditioning a pair??
im feeding mine tubidex worms
 

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They are! Worms are good, but things like brine shrimp, flightless fruit flies maybe, things that are more protein and fatty are best.
 

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I turned the tank light on and now she follows him all the way to the nest sometimes but its still not quite working for some reason. He's still building away at his nest.

OK EDIT - Now she's literally head down under the nest waiting but he keeps chasing her off so he can build his nest. It's huge already. Oy vey bettas! :)
 

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Better than mine, GT, she does nothing but run now... They were both happy flirting when she was in her vase in the tank. He was even working on a small bubblenest. Now all she does is run, and all he does is gently chase and flare, not a nest in sight.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I am currently having this problem as well. The female is healthy and he has been very gentle with her. The water is tanned and she'll go check out the nest, but turns back part way and then he chases her. They've been together for two days I think. She has one little nip in her fin anal fin and that's all so I'm leaving them together. He is continually adding to the nest and chasing her, so that seems like a good sign. She was VERY flirty when in her chimney, so I thought they'd be quick. If they don't spawn in the next 4 days I'll re-condition and try again.
I have the exact same set up. I think yours will spawn soon since its only been two days. Also at least your female is actually going to the bubble nest. Mine isn't.

Though my male made a very big nest and I don't want to take him out. If I have to I will. He is always adding new bubbles to his nest though.

Would I be able to just take the female out to recondition or would I have to take both of them out separate from eye view?
 

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I would remove them both. If the male is left in the tank alone for awhile it will become "his" territory and he will only attack the female. You could leave the tank as it is though, then when you put them back in it might be familiar. Or maybe it would be beneficial to move things around so it's like they can start over again? Hopefully someone else will chime in here. She keeps going to the nest but is a little skittish and swims away if he gets close at all. He is pretty gentle with her, just chases aggressively, but they've been together for a couple days and I see only a nip or two.

He has built the biggest, thickest nest I've ever seen.

I'm trying to decide if I should leave the light on tonight, or turn it off? Usually I keep the lights dim for spawns but this pair seems to get the most courting done with the light on. It's so funny because turning off a light can be great for some bettas to spawn, and will put others on a stalemate, and there's no way to tell until after the fact. And by "funny" I mean maddening.
 

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They keep almost embracing! So close, then she gets chased off. I hope they figure it out..
 

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Good luck GT here is hoping.
My pair continue the chase and brake thing. Then the male swims to his spot in the plants... and blows a bubble or two then ignores the starting nest -__-
She just ignores him except to run...
 

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Sounds like they aren't very compatible. How did you condition and introduce them? I had no luck with the hobbyist chimney method, so I use a modified shock method and it works well for me. This male has not stopped building his nest since he started a few days ago. I use petco betta lids for them to build their nest under. It sort of looks like a big bubble and it sticks well to the side of the tank. He keeps blowing bubbles in one area so it's just getting super thick lol.
 

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I used a mixture of live black worms, frozen blood worms, and pellets, 3 times a day. For the last two days I didn't let them see other bettas, except each other for 5 minutes a day. (I half forgot about this step). I then placed him in the tank, and her in the tank in her vase for over night. He flirted with her, and blew a few bubbles, flirted, few bubbles, etc. She danced back at him so this midmorning I released her into the tank. He is being very gentle with her. No nipping, just flaring and chasing. She just runs. He takes breaks to go blow a bubble or two and to rest, then it repeats.
By the time he goes back to blow another bubbles the others have popped.

Should I leave them over night? Or should I pull them? Recondition them, or use my next pair?
 

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Do you have the tank covered and something for the bubbles to stick to?
high humidity helps bubbles stick together. Conditioning sounds good. If I separate the female I always make sure the male blows some kind of decent nest before releasing her, just shows he's for sure interested to me. It sounds like they're kind of in a stalemate. If the females doing fine and the male isn't super tired, I'd just leave them. Maybe they'll figure it out. If this goes on for another day I'd scrap it, personally. You could try a different female with him if you have one.

Otherwise I'd just try the next pair. Sorry, it's really frustrating! :(
 

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Okay, well he was blowing some bubbles for her. I have read of others who have had males start majorly making the nest when the female was introduced.

The humidity is medium, I have a ton of plants and 3 IAL in the tank.
The male takes breaks an rests between the chases, but he seems fine. The female isn't even breathing hard. She doesn't even have a nip on her. As I said he is being beyond gentle with her.

I will begin to seriously condition my other two pairs. I have been only feeding them twice a day like I do all my bettas, just with the live food mix mentioned.

So I guess I will leave them over night to see what happens.

So my other two pair I am considering. Blue marble sibling pair. HM x HMPK (only problem is the female is in the sorority)
Also considering both mustard gas, male is emerald dragon HM the female is blackish CT.

Hey it may be a bit frustrating, but this is my first spawn and I am here to learn.
 

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I would go with the sibling blue pair. Ct x anything other than ct can lead to messy fins which = hard to give away, sell, etc. Or if you are planning to breed for awhile, I say go ahead and then try to refine your fins from there.

The sibling would probably be more likely to spawn and have similar genetics and 180 degree finnage, so they would produce more typically desirable fry.
 

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Yeah I was thinking the sibling pair first.
I do plan on breed for awhile, and actually make it a small side business. I have several LPS/LFS in my area interested in my bettas, and of course there is AB, here and friends haha. I know that is not going to be all, I am well aware I will need to cull, and be ready to work hard with it :p

I am planning on doing the CT/HM cross at some point and am willing to work on the finnage. Take the best few pairs, cull the rest most likely, and sadly(but needed) Refine the fins. Its not often that one sees dragon scale mustard gas halfsuns.
 
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