Betta Fish Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Housing
What size is your tank? 10 Gallons
What temperature is your tank? 79 F
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Tetra Bloodworms
How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day

Maintenance
Note: This is a new tank, an upgrade from a 2.5g to this 10g
How often do you perform a water change? It will be once a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? it will be 50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? None aside from Nutrafin Aqua+?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0-.25
Nitrite: unknown
Nitrate: unknown
pH: unknown
Hardness: unknown
Alkalinity: unknown

Currently I don't have access to a water testing kit with liquid testers, and the strips I got never changed color so I assume to be as unreliable as everyone suggests they are. I will be getting a Master testing Kit in December when I can go to the city.

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Biting/tearing of fins ever since a month after moving from the pet store cup to his 2.5g.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He's active. Burtsts of energy, mostly active exploration of his tank, visiting his cave, slipping through his decorations.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? The tailbiting/tearing as soon as it started. His tail used to be very long, then over night it seemed to be half its original length, and now it's this (see picture). When he was moved to this tank I didn't notice anymore tears or bites, but for the first 3 hours after being introduced he did flare at his reflection. Also since being in this new tank, he disappears for a while then realizes I'm sitting here and does a sort of..fit or dance in the corner nearest me. I talk to him and let him know I'm paying attention.
Have you started treating your fish? Not yet, I want to be sure.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Not that I know of.
How old is your fish (approximately)? ....Not sure. I've had him since July, and his body length hasn't grown, so I assume he's an adult fish...

Before::



Now::

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
It's hard to a little hard to tell from the pics, but do any of his fins, not just the tail, have any gray or black spots? Is it a little crumbly at the edges? It looks like this may actually be fin biting, not rot. I've heard VTs & HMs tend to do that more because the weight of their tails get too much & once they start nibbling they realize their tails get lighter & keep it up. It can also be from stress, which would be my guess in your situation since you just moved him. Has his behavior changed, eating habits? Either way, you might want to add Stress Coat+ because I've found that really helps with fin regrowth. Try to identify any stressors (like not enough hiding spots, too much light, or anything that you may have done differently since he moved) & do what you can to fix it. If you think it's fin rot or want to treat it like it is, just in case, I recommend 1 tsp of Aquarium Salt with 100% water changes daily for a max of 10 days. You'll probably want to put him back in the 2.5 gal for that.

This is a pic of my guy right after I got him from PetCo to use as an example of both biting & rot. He was a biter from stress & got fin rot from his nasty cup water. Look at the edges specifically. You can see how they're slightly uneven & look inflamed & reddish black. The unevenness is more liketly from biting, but the color is all rot.

EDIT: I buy my kit from Amazon. I live in a rural area & its $20 cheaper online. Did you cycle your tank?
http://www.amazon.com/API-Freshwate...r=8-1&keywords=api+master+test+kit+freshwater
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Argh, sorry! I swear you didn't mention his behavior & I read back over your post & you did! I would definitely say he's a biter then. You do want to keep his water extra clean because it does raise his risk of infection. I would try the Stress Coat+ like a mentioned & may try a betta leaf hammock. All my guys love it! http://www.amazon.com/Betta-Leaf-Ha...1353137347&sr=1-2&keywords=betta+leaf+hammock He may be bored, so try to rearrange the tank when you clean it. Sometimes though, they're just biters no matter what you do. My HM in the pic just won't let his tail grow beyond a certain amount no matter what I do. It's frustrating, but just keep trying!

And for the aquarium salt suggestion, it is 1 tsp per gallon. It's just not my night! lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It's hard to a little hard to tell from the pics, but do any of his fins, not just the tail, have any gray or black spots? Is it a little crumbly at the edges? It looks like this may actually be fin biting, not rot. I've heard VTs & HMs tend to do that more because the weight of their tails get too much & once they start nibbling they realize their tails get lighter & keep it up. It can also be from stress, which would be my guess in your situation since you just moved him. Has his behavior changed, eating habits? Either way, you might want to add Stress Coat+ because I've found that really helps with fin regrowth. Try to identify any stressors (like not enough hiding spots, too much light, or anything that you may have done differently since he moved) & do what you can to fix it. If you think it's fin rot or want to treat it like it is, just in case, I recommend 1 tsp of Aquarium Salt with 100% water changes daily for a max of 10 days. You'll probably want to put him back in the 2.5 gal for that.

This is a pic of my guy right after I got him from PetCo to use as an example of both biting & rot. He was a biter from stress & got fin rot from his nasty cup water. Look at the edges specifically. You can see how they're slightly uneven & look inflamed & reddish black. The unevenness is more liketly from biting, but the color is all rot.

EDIT: I buy my kit from Amazon. I live in a rural area & its $20 cheaper online. Did you cycle your tank?
http://www.amazon.com/API-Freshwate...r=8-1&keywords=api+master+test+kit+freshwater
Unfortunately...and I'm really regretting it now...I was very excited about moving him to a bigger tank, mostly because of his tail-biting in the 2.5. figured the 10g gave him and I both more options for decor, could house a heater, and would be more space. I also changed plastic plants for silk ones, and the plastic ones I kept I tested on panty hose first. So, long answer short, no, the 10g was not cycled first, I am in my first week of a fish-in cycle.

I've been watching his tail-biting like a hawk since it started, and there is some black starting on the edges. He has been stressed all week (though he calms, then gets upset, then calms, etc...). AQ Salt sounds like a great idea, though I'll have to check for the Stress Coat at the store here.

Thank you so much for replying!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Argh, sorry! I swear you didn't mention his behavior & I read back over your post & you did! I would definitely say he's a biter then. You do want to keep his water extra clean because it does raise his risk of infection. I would try the Stress Coat+ like a mentioned & may try a betta leaf hammock. All my guys love it! http://www.amazon.com/Betta-Leaf-Ha...1353137347&sr=1-2&keywords=betta+leaf+hammock He may be bored, so try to rearrange the tank when you clean it. Sometimes though, they're just biters no matter what you do. My HM in the pic just won't let his tail grow beyond a certain amount no matter what I do. It's frustrating, but just keep trying!

And for the aquarium salt suggestion, it is 1 tsp per gallon. It's just not my night! lol
lol, I was halfway through my reply to your other post when my iphone told me you replied again xD

No worries though =)

I just...it's frustrating. He was beautiful, and I just feel like this is a severe punk/emo phase no matter what I do about it. But we'll see if the AQ Salt helps. What does Stress Coat do exactly? And if they want lighter tails, should we be trying to grow their tails back? Or is it like maybe trimming branches off a tree, only...a very moody and picky tree (betta)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Argh, sorry! I swear you didn't mention his behavior & I read back over your post & you did! I would definitely say he's a biter then. You do want to keep his water extra clean because it does raise his risk of infection. I would try the Stress Coat+ like a mentioned & may try a betta leaf hammock. All my guys love it! http://www.amazon.com/Betta-Leaf-Ha...1353137347&sr=1-2&keywords=betta+leaf+hammock He may be bored, so try to rearrange the tank when you clean it. Sometimes though, they're just biters no matter what you do. My HM in the pic just won't let his tail grow beyond a certain amount no matter what I do. It's frustrating, but just keep trying!

And for the aquarium salt suggestion, it is 1 tsp per gallon. It's just not my night! lol
Also, I have rounded plastic plants floating on top that he uses exactly like that =) It worried me the first time he started it, I thought he might be getting lethargic, but then I saw he was just fine. The tank setup is new-oldish (something familiar to his old smaller set up, but with...more to it.) But I have extra fabric plants and such to play around with. There's another sort of half-cave rock fixture with plant at the store I'm eye-balling. Also gonna get a betta log asap, but gonna get some ping pong balls with the salt and see if it'll entertain him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Stress Coat has aloe in it & it helps coat the fins with some extra slime to protect them from infection & help them grow. I was really surprised how much it helped Hercules. You can even safely do a double dose if you want, which I would recommend in this case. It leaves the tank kind of slimey, so be careful handling things, that's how I broke my 1st cave! It's 1ml per gallon & the cap is a measuring cup, you just have to look close for the 1 ml line, it's really close to the bottom. If he's starting to get some black I would absolutely treat with salt! Treating early is best. I know the feeling of wanting to move them early. Is there any way you can move him back til it finishes cycling or could you add plants to help? I recently had to move 2 of my guys to a divided 10 gal when the heater broke & I hadn't started cycling. I added a java moss rock & a ton of anacharis & I'm looking to add a couple java ferns.
When I did that with my 1st 10 gal for a fish-out cycle, I actually got a silent cycle because I added so much which was great, plus these are easy to care for plants & cheap! I also "seeded" this new tank by adding a piece of filter sponge from my established tank & added some gravel from the established tank as well so that added some good bacteria right off the bat. Do you know anyone with an established tank that can give you some gravel? I would avoid asking a pet store because they have so many fish they may have diseases that you definitely don't want. The reason I suggest moving him back or adding things to the tank is because I think that may be partly responsible for the fin rot & the stress of doing an in-fish cycle probably won't help. With fin biting they just open themselves up to infection, it's like having a cut reopen everyday & playing in the dirt. *rolls eyes*
That's why it's so important to keep the water clean. As for the tree question, firstly lol. Secondly, I don't know if we should necessarily try to grow them back. We should try to get them to stop & keep their water clean to promote healing, unfortunately, that causes fin regrowth, so it's just a bad cycle, but what else can we do? That's what those leaves are great. You put them right below the water level & they just chill on there. They get a break from the heavy, beautiful fins.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=107118
This is a thread with a great idea! You can make your own hammock for your betta out of mesh! I haven't done this yet, but I have bought plastic mesh from Michaels for 59 cents each & suction cups are about $1 at my LFS. As an added bonus, someone on there mentions you could weave java moss through it & BAM! 2 birds with one stone! Plant & hammock! Sorry, if this is too much info. I don't know how much you know & I would rather give too much than too little!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Stress Coat has aloe in it & it helps coat the fins with some extra slime to protect them from infection & help them grow. I was really surprised how much it helped Hercules. You can even safely do a double dose if you want, which I would recommend in this case. It leaves the tank kind of slimey, so be careful handling things, that's how I broke my 1st cave! It's 1ml per gallon & the cap is a measuring cup, you just have to look close for the 1 ml line, it's really close to the bottom. If he's starting to get some black I would absolutely treat with salt! Treating early is best. I know the feeling of wanting to move them early. Is there any way you can move him back til it finishes cycling or could you add plants to help? I recently had to move 2 of my guys to a divided 10 gal when the heater broke & I hadn't started cycling. I added a java moss rock & a ton of anacharis & I'm looking to add a couple java ferns.
When I did that with my 1st 10 gal for a fish-out cycle, I actually got a silent cycle because I added so much which was great, plus these are easy to care for plants & cheap! I also "seeded" this new tank by adding a piece of filter sponge from my established tank & added some gravel from the established tank as well so that added some good bacteria right off the bat. Do you know anyone with an established tank that can give you some gravel? I would avoid asking a pet store because they have so many fish they may have diseases that you definitely don't want. The reason I suggest moving him back or adding things to the tank is because I think that may be partly responsible for the fin rot & the stress of doing an in-fish cycle probably won't help. With fin biting they just open themselves up to infection, it's like having a cut reopen everyday & playing in the dirt. *rolls eyes*
That's why it's so important to keep the water clean. As for the tree question, firstly lol. Secondly, I don't know if we should necessarily try to grow them back. We should try to get them to stop & keep their water clean to promote healing, unfortunately, that causes fin regrowth, so it's just a bad cycle, but what else can we do? That's what those leaves are great. You put them right below the water level & they just chill on there. They get a break from the heavy, beautiful fins.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=107118
This is a thread with a great idea! You can make your own hammock for your betta out of mesh! I haven't done this yet, but I have bought plastic mesh from Michaels for 59 cents each & suction cups are about $1 at my LFS. As an added bonus, someone on there mentions you could weave java moss through it & BAM! 2 birds with one stone! Plant & hammock! Sorry, if this is too much info. I don't know how much you know & I would rather give too much than too little!
I keep wondering about plants...and I'll admit I'm nervous about trying them. I fail miserably at anything other than bamboo. I just dont have the green thumb everyone else does in my family >.< And no, I think I'm one of the few fish/marine/harsh weather loving people here =/, so I dont know anyone else with a dedicated fish hobby.

The biggest problem (aside from my lack of ability with plants) is that I am srsly rural. And ordering stuff online just isnt in the budget yet, though I dont know if they would even ship plants out here. Rural-anywhere in Canada has all kinds of problems with mail-ins, lol!

The plant and hammock does sound real cool though.

I understand about the biting-via growth/no growth now. And, rolling in the dirt after, sounds like my cat xD Washes himself then lolls about on the dusty sidewalk. Anyways, I will definitely check into the AQ-salt and Stress Coat first.

Tomorrow is this tank's first 50% change. I'll be placing him in his old 2.5 with clean water while I do the change, so I'll be watching to see if he perks up in there at all or just gives me hell with more stress-stripes because I moved him again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Totally understand the rural thing. I'm in the US, but it's it sucks no matter what your country. My area is so rural we just got our first Walmart this summer, before that we had to drive 3.5 hrs to get our white trash on. lol I'm lucky because I have an awesome LFS, that has great plants. I've heard of others who've had luck ordering from e-bay & aquabid, plus I've seen some great deals for plants in the classified section here when your budget is better. Don't be scared. I've only recently managed to keep my first plant alive & it's a cactus. My 4 of my family members got a cutting from my grandma's plant & mine is by far the smallest, but it's still alive so that's a win in my book! However, I have never managed to kill Anacharis. Literally all it needs is light, so just leave your tank light on for 8 hrs max & you're good. Plus it grows up to a foot a month (my average about 6-8 inches) so a small bunch grows quickly. I paid $3 for a small bunch, now it's in both 10 gal, 3 3 gal & a 5 gal & I have to trash a ton every month. (Never toss it in waterways because it grows so quick). If you're comfortable with it, I'll send you some free if it can go through customs & stuff. No pressure though, this is the internet!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Totally understand the rural thing. I'm in the US, but it's it sucks no matter what your country. My area is so rural we just got our first Walmart this summer, before that we had to drive 3.5 hrs to get our white trash on. lol I'm lucky because I have an awesome LFS, that has great plants. I've heard of others who've had luck ordering from e-bay & aquabid, plus I've seen some great deals for plants in the classified section here when your budget is better. Don't be scared. I've only recently managed to keep my first plant alive & it's a cactus. My 4 of my family members got a cutting from my grandma's plant & mine is by far the smallest, but it's still alive so that's a win in my book! However, I have never managed to kill Anacharis. Literally all it needs is light, so just leave your tank light on for 8 hrs max & you're good. Plus it grows up to a foot a month (my average about 6-8 inches) so a small bunch grows quickly. I paid $3 for a small bunch, now it's in both 10 gal, 3 3 gal & a 5 gal & I have to trash a ton every month. (Never toss it in waterways because it grows so quick). If you're comfortable with it, I'll send you some free if it can go through customs & stuff. No pressure though, this is the internet!
I have no~ clue if you can send plants through customs, haha. And it is so generous of you to offer! More and more plants are sounding like a good idea, and I do know that the store I bought my betta in has tanks of just plants for aquariums. But does that mean I'll have to get snails to handle any dying plant in the water? I was reading a little about those while waiting for replies here...not that I have a problem with snails. But will my betta have a problem with snails?

I'm going to go look up Anacharis now and see what it'll take to keep. I mean roots, tying down, other bits and ends I've read of teh long list of things I've read in the last two weeks...lolol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Snails....ew, ew & ew! Not a fan!!! You'll want quarantine them for a week or two to make sure there are no snails &....I think someone said to make sure they're not gonna die? I'm not sure of the reason, but I hate snails so I rinse the heck outta those plants then through them in a buck of water for awhile then put them in a tank. I'd also make sure your LFS doesn't keep snails in their plant tank because some do for some reason. I don't keep snails in my tanks for the plants, which you probably already figured out. lol If I think there is a problem with the plant, I just cut off the problem part & put it right back in. I've been doing that since...June? Never had issues yet. Of course if you want snails, that would be fine. I would wait til after your finished cycling though because because I've heard they can through off your bio-load which you definitely don't want. Plus some can grow pretty big, so I would maybe ask some other members if you're thinking about it. There are some fantastic threads of natural planted tanks & planted tanks in general. I'm just a novice, so my knowledge is limited.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Snails....ew, ew & ew! Not a fan!!! You'll want quarantine them for a week or two to make sure there are no snails &....I think someone said to make sure they're not gonna die? I'm not sure of the reason, but I hate snails so I rinse the heck outta those plants then through them in a buck of water for awhile then put them in a tank. I'd also make sure your LFS doesn't keep snails in their plant tank because some do for some reason. I don't keep snails in my tanks for the plants, which you probably already figured out. lol If I think there is a problem with the plant, I just cut off the problem part & put it right back in. I've been doing that since...June? Never had issues yet. Of course if you want snails, that would be fine. I would wait til after your finished cycling though because because I've heard they can through off your bio-load which you definitely don't want. Plus some can grow pretty big, so I would maybe ask some other members if you're thinking about it. There are some fantastic threads of natural planted tanks & planted tanks in general. I'm just a novice, so my knowledge is limited.
Well I looked up Anacharis and some other easy beginner plants and it seems easy enough so I think I'll definitely get some as soon as I can. I'm really only curious about snails, not sure if I really want to add any. But when I do get the plants I'll make very certain there arent any.

I just hope when I do go, I dont end up adopting another betta. I mean I do, but at the same time I can't afford a whole new tank. Though I do have the old one...I just hate seeing them in those small cups! I really feel for your situation in your thread, my first betta a few years ago was a super lethargic crown-tail with extreme color-loss. It was a few months before he had full color, and he went from pale and red to vibrant blue with red and even some purple. He lived three years. So they definitely have the spirit to live, they just need some serious help from us after being in this miserable shelf-homes at the store.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Thanks for your comment on my thread! I'm a little frustrated because I have to constantly fight the ammonia levels since I have to keep him in only 2 inches of water (for his safety) right now, plus he has to be excreting ammonia like crazy. Poor guy. So I appreciate the support. I know the feeling about worrying about getting another betta. That's how I got Artie...in fact that's how I got most of my lil guys. I keep some of mine in 10 gal tanks divided in 1/2. The dividers I have are nice & sturdy so I don't have to worry about them killing each other. Plus the ones in divided tanks were put in there because I felt they were less aggressive & could handle it. I don't want to tempt you with ways to get more fish, but sometimes you just see one that breaks your heart & you can't get him out of your head, so there are options if you're in that situation. Oh, and one more thing about tail biters. Bettas love live food & I found supplementing with live food helps them get out some aggression & can help with the biting, even if it's only for a day or 2. I feed my fish 2 live bloodworms as a replacement for evening pellets the day before I fast them. I wouldn't really recommend doing more than once a week & you do need to be careful because some live food can make fish sick or kill them. Lots of people use freeze-dried or frozen for that reason. If you have a LFS that you trust, that may be another option. I've been doing it since April & everyone is happy & healthy. If you want to stick with the bloodworms you're currently using I would switch to something else for a normal food because bloodworms are supposed to be more of a treat. I don't think it's part of the tail biting problem, but I don't think (although I'm not 100% certain) that what you're feeding him has all the nutrients he needs, so potentially that could also be an issue, although it is a long shot. I use Omega One Betta Buffet Pellets & I think those are the best, plus they're nice & cheap too. Hikari Bio-Gold & New Life Spectrum are also good, but New Life is pretty pricey although it's a pretty large jar. Since you live in a rural area these might not be an option right away, but something to think about. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think it's tail biting
I do too now. His tail started growing out and whatever the black stuff was cleared up, but I do have him in a 2,5g with AQ Salt right now too. And came home to find another chunk bitten out of his tail -_-;
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,769 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for your comment on my thread! I'm a little frustrated because I have to constantly fight the ammonia levels since I have to keep him in only 2 inches of water (for his safety) right now, plus he has to be excreting ammonia like crazy. Poor guy. So I appreciate the support. I know the feeling about worrying about getting another betta. That's how I got Artie...in fact that's how I got most of my lil guys. I keep some of mine in 10 gal tanks divided in 1/2. The dividers I have are nice & sturdy so I don't have to worry about them killing each other. Plus the ones in divided tanks were put in there because I felt they were less aggressive & could handle it. I don't want to tempt you with ways to get more fish, but sometimes you just see one that breaks your heart & you can't get him out of your head, so there are options if you're in that situation. Oh, and one more thing about tail biters. Bettas love live food & I found supplementing with live food helps them get out some aggression & can help with the biting, even if it's only for a day or 2. I feed my fish 2 live bloodworms as a replacement for evening pellets the day before I fast them. I wouldn't really recommend doing more than once a week & you do need to be careful because some live food can make fish sick or kill them. Lots of people use freeze-dried or frozen for that reason. If you have a LFS that you trust, that may be another option. I've been doing it since April & everyone is happy & healthy. If you want to stick with the bloodworms you're currently using I would switch to something else for a normal food because bloodworms are supposed to be more of a treat. I don't think it's part of the tail biting problem, but I don't think (although I'm not 100% certain) that what you're feeding him has all the nutrients he needs, so potentially that could also be an issue, although it is a long shot. I use Omega One Betta Buffet Pellets & I think those are the best, plus they're nice & cheap too. Hikari Bio-Gold & New Life Spectrum are also good, but New Life is pretty pricey although it's a pretty large jar. Since you live in a rural area these might not be an option right away, but something to think about. Good luck!
I do have somebetta pellets, but they just look so big and then they get bigger when they're wet, and I'm scared of him choking on them. I remember having smaller pellets for my last betta a few years ago. Can't remember the brand though, but I wrote yours down! When I go to the city next month I'm getting some anacharis, java moss and some moss balls and possibly one snail. Still researching which one wont suddenly multiply on me and will last in a gravel substrate tank. But you've been an amazing help with this. He's in his 2.5g with AQ salt for right now, since I dont have access to Stress Coat and I really dont want him getting more stressed and then sick. He's not striped and is doing alright. I'll just keep him there and contiue with a fishless cycle and wait till the cycles done before trying to add him to the 10g again.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top