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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
my CT Grimmjow has velvet though i fear ive caught it way too late. i'll probably upoad pics later but he has torn scales on both sides and 2 triangular patches of solid gold color just behind his belly. he's a shiny turquoise betta so the silver blue shine masks the gold flecks too well. i got him started on api general cure 5 days ago and have since done 1 2 stage dose and a 25wc on his tank. its a heated 3.4gKK with no tank mates. up until yesterday he showed no lack of activity aside from sitting on the bottom often or on ornaments. there is still one ornament which i should've removed upon discovery of the velvet but i'll do that immediately after this post. he was very sluggish yesterday and he was laying on his side this morning just resting, he's also resting on his silk plants. he's a turquoise fish which has naturally bleached out by age and my choice of white gravel makes him hard to find at times.


i think it might be too late to save him at this point but what sort of tank cleaning is necessary for velvet clean up? the KK he's in and the heater will be used for a replacement fish should he pass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
bump, Grimmjow died sometime between 9 pm 6/5/14 and 3 pm 7/5/14. ive buried him in the plant pots as i have done so for the others that have passed. do i need any special precautions to clean the tank and the equipment that have been in contact with the betta that just passed? will a simple bleach solution make the tank and items safe again?
 

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Im so sorry about your boy.

I've cleaned up tanks with infections with just very hot water and maybe a tiny bit of bleach if it was a bad infection. I haven't had issues with the infections affecting new fish.

Just as a future reference - Coopersafe works really well on velvet. My girl had it (I was lucky enough to catch it early) and it disappeared with in a few days. I found mine at petco but I haven't seen it there in a while (maybe yours will have it though).
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Im so sorry about your boy.

I've cleaned up tanks with infections with just very hot water and maybe a tiny bit of bleach if it was a bad infection. I haven't had issues with the infections affecting new fish.

Just as a future reference - Coopersafe works really well on velvet. My girl had it (I was lucky enough to catch it early) and it disappeared with in a few days. I found mine at petco but I haven't seen it there in a while (maybe yours will have it though).
ty very much Vivian. i'll get by with my usual bleach solution to clean the tank.

id love to get coppersafe but i seriously doubt i can find in Quebec. this province is in the dark ages for fish meds. think of any meds highly promoted by the companies ie bettafix and such and thats pretty much all we got. i did get API general cure in an LPS but thats the exception. there were some Jungle brand meds but mostly those found in walmarts.

we only have Nature petstore and Safari chain stores in Quebec. petco and such will easily be found outside the provinces borders. they've even banned the most effective fish meds as the active chemical that you'd need is not allowed here. why that is, i dont know. i would rely on the net or out of province pet stores more for meds.
 

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It's true, my son was told the same thing when looking for medication here. We too are in QC, just across the river from Ottawa ON. so I was able to get the meds there.

Sorry about your Betta! :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's true, my son was told the same thing when looking for medication here. We too are in QC, just across the river from Ottawa ON. so I was able to get the meds there.

Sorry about your Betta! :(
i only found that out after asking a mom/pop pet store. its annoying as hell that QC wont join the present as far as medications go.

the best one in QC can hope for is the common walmart medication brands.

Grimmjow may have passed but i managed to find a stunning dragons scale betta delta. i did also see a bicolor brown orange CT but thinking back the one i got is even better and it was a new shipment. they didnt have room on the shelves for all the new betta but i snatched him up.
his fins are clearish without the reflection thought he black highlights remain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Oh wow, lucky he was one of the bettas that had found a place on the shelf. He's gorgeous! :love:
actually, he was a new arrival. there were around 20 miniature shipping bags left on the table to acclimate to the room temp. he didnt even have a chance to go into a betta barrack cup. i got a bag of water from their plant tank and took him in his tiny shipping bag. there might have been a similar colored betta there but it wasnt as colorful as him.
 

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well no, we do not only have safari. Since you are from Montreal there is Aquatica which is very good and carry a load of medicine. Copper safe is easy to find in Quebec from my experience.

I buy a lot of my med online from Big Al Online Canada, and the shipping is free for order over 75$. I buy my kanamycin from them and they carry copper safe etc... all the med you might need.

API general cure is prazy and metronidazole, which neither have any effect on velvet.

What makes you think it's velvet? have you introduce something recently? velvet would come out within about 2 to 4 weeks and it wont be latent in your aquarium for much more than that. If you had the fish for many months and have not introduced anything new, then it is unlikely velvet.

Aquatica also carry Seachem Cupramine, which is a form of copper that is safer. You cannot use Prime with Cupramine as it will bind with the amine in Cupramine and release the copper into a toxic form. When using Cupramine it is best to let the water aerate for a few days before using it and not use a dechlorinator. If you let the water aerate for 48 hours then it will be ok without the use of any dechlorinator, so you could use Cupramine with that and be careful not to overdose. Copper is very toxic to fish.





ty very much Vivian. i'll get by with my usual bleach solution to clean the tank.

id love to get coppersafe but i seriously doubt i can find in Quebec. this province is in the dark ages for fish meds. think of any meds highly promoted by the companies ie bettafix and such and thats pretty much all we got. i did get API general cure in an LPS but thats the exception. there were some Jungle brand meds but mostly those found in walmarts.

we only have Nature petstore and Safari chain stores in Quebec. petco and such will easily be found outside the provinces borders. they've even banned the most effective fish meds as the active chemical that you'd need is not allowed here. why that is, i dont know. i would rely on the net or out of province pet stores more for meds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
well no, we do not only have safari. Since you are from Montreal there is Aquatica which is very good and carry a load of medicine. Copper safe is easy to find in Quebec from my experience.

I buy a lot of my med online from Big Al Online Canada, and the shipping is free for order over 75$. I buy my kanamycin from them and they carry copper safe etc... all the med you might need.

API general cure is prazy and metronidazole, which neither have any effect on velvet.

What makes you think it's velvet? have you introduce something recently? velvet would come out within about 2 to 4 weeks and it wont be latent in your aquarium for much more than that. If you had the fish for many months and have not introduced anything new, then it is unlikely velvet.

Aquatica also carry Seachem Cupramine, which is a form of copper that is safer. You cannot use Prime with Cupramine as it will bind with the amine in Cupramine and release the copper into a toxic form. When using Cupramine it is best to let the water aerate for a few days before using it and not use a dechlorinator. If you let the water aerate for 48 hours then it will be ok without the use of any dechlorinator, so you could use Cupramine with that and be careful not to overdose. Copper is very toxic to fish.
ty very much for the reply Daniella. i didnt know Montreal had other good places for fish and its pretty close to where i live. i'll definetly check that place out rather soon. the reason i didnt know Aquatica is that im relatively new to the area where i live. my parents' place only has safari and nature nearby. there is terre et mer (LRS/LPS) they do have fish but no extraordinary meds. there's a mom/pop store on st Catherine near Atwater, not the cleanest place fishwise nor much meds. i'll get some Cupramine as i try to get a broad range of meds for fish when i get the opportunity to do so. i do like to be prepared for any sicknesses my fish could get.

API general cure does mention it can deal with velvet on the packaging but given the medicine's name, it probably is a broad range med which specializes in none too much.

i do have stresscoat as an alternative conditioner with a sample 10ml bag of top fin conditioner. Grimmjow was a single occupant tank and i didnt do anything radical to change something. i know hes was getting old and im lucky to get 3 years per fish. his rays were like that for many months without regaining any growth so i knew he'd be weaker to sicknesses.

these pics are what made me guess velvet. that covers both sides of his body . on his last day there was a vertical golden band 75% of his body height on the right side.
 

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General cure is a powerful med, last resort kind of med. It contains:

Active ingredients: copper sulfate, trichlorfon and metronidazole

Copper is toxic to fish, so must use it carefully and never overdose, trichlorfon is for parasites as well, metronidazole is for internal protozoare infection as well as a mild antibiotic.

If you treated your fish with that med and it did nothing, then it probably was not velvet, maybe it was some bacterial infection like columnaris as he seems to have some ulceration under his body?

He looked really bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
General cure is a powerful med, last resort kind of med. It contains:

Active ingredients: copper sulfate, trichlorfon and metronidazole

Copper is toxic to fish, so must use it carefully and never overdose, trichlorfon is for parasites as well, metronidazole is for internal protozoare infection as well as a mild antibiotic.

If you treated your fish with that med and it did nothing, then it probably was not velvet, maybe it was some bacterial infection like columnaris as he seems to have some ulceration under his body?

He looked really bad.
ty for the response Daniella. it be a bit had for me to overdose him with API general cure in his tank. 1 pack can treat 10 and i treated him in his 3.4g KK. its relatively easy to determine the dosing when i just need split the pack into 3 parts.

though for smaller tanks its harder to separate the powder properly. when i use the gen cure i pour it all onto a lid and split it up into 3 parts for 3.4gKK.

i dont have much experience with sicknesses though ive had a fish recover from dropsy (maracyn 2) others problems were from age, tumours and fin rot. one VT/RT i have is sbd prone but i managed it by feeding him every 2 days so he wont swell too much.
 

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Oh I did not mean that I thought you overdosed, I just tought that maybe since the med is quite strong and the condition of the fish did not improve, maybe it was not the right med. Maybe it was not velvet but columnaris for which general cure would have no effect. Just guessing here.

Although I know that velvet can be a quick killer. That is why I always use permanganate potassium bath first for external disease, then I treat with med, that way I get rid of everything that is on the fish first and fast.



ty for the response Daniella. it be a bit had for me to overdose him with API general cure in his tank. 1 pack can treat 10 and i treated him in his 3.4g KK. its relatively easy to determine the dosing when i just need split the pack into 3 parts.

though for smaller tanks its harder to separate the powder properly. when i use the gen cure i pour it all onto a lid and split it up into 3 parts for 3.4gKK.

i dont have much experience with sicknesses though ive had a fish recover from dropsy (maracyn 2) others problems were from age, tumours and fin rot. one VT/RT i have is sbd prone but i managed it by feeding him every 2 days so he wont swell too much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Oh I did not mean that I thought you overdosed, I just tought that maybe since the med is quite strong and the condition of the fish did not improve, maybe it was not the right med. Maybe it was not velvet but columnaris for which general cure would have no effect. Just guessing here.

Although I know that velvet can be a quick killer. That is why I always use permanganate potassium bath first for external disease, then I treat with med, that way I get rid of everything that is on the fish first and fast.
dont worry about that, i can see how gen cure can be overdosed if one isnt careful. you cant really measure it other that spread it and eye it for splitting.

what exactly is permaganate potasium? where might i be able to find it? the only real meds i have is jungles fungus eliminator, General cure and Maracyn 2. i already have ES and AQ salt.
 

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Permanganate potassium is hard to find, at least it was for me here in Quebec, Canada. I think it can be found at some hardware stores in the USA easier, or I have read maybe some pool supply stores. Also it is possible to buy it on Ebay. But permanganate potassium is hard to use. Dosing is critical as any overdose will kill the fish.

I use it this way, I first prepare a base solution by mixing 1 gram of PP crystal with 1 liter of distilled or RO water. I shake it very well so all the crytals are dissolved.

Then to get 2ppm I mix 2 ml of my base solution in 1 liter of distilled water or RO water. I cannot use any dechlorinator with it as it will deactivate the PP.

So the 1 gram must be weighted very carefully and the 1 liter must be measured precisely. Everything must be measured carefully with this stuff as it is a powerful oxidizer.

I leave the fish in this 2ppm bath for 60 to 90 minutes if the fish tolerate it well.

The advantage of this product is that it does not create resistance in bacteria and it is very fast acting when in emergency situation for bacterial infection or velvet or another fast moving parasite. I do a bath 2 days in row then I give the fish a rest for one day and if the problem is not resolve then I do another bath for another day or two. Usually that's enough.

A lot of people advise against using this stuff as it is tricky to use and dangerous if overdose but for me, it's been my savior countless times.

I use a 10 ppm strength to desinfect new plants for a 30 minutes bath.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Permanganate potassium is hard to find, at least it was for me here in Quebec, Canada. I think it can be found at some hardware stores in the USA easier, or I have read maybe some pool supply stores. Also it is possible to buy it on Ebay. But permanganate potassium is hard to use. Dosing is critical as any overdose will kill the fish.

I use it this way, I first prepare a base solution by mixing 1 gram of PP crystal with 1 liter of distilled or RO water. I shake it very well so all the crytals are dissolved.

Then to get 2ppm I mix 2 ml of my base solution in 1 liter of distilled water or RO water. I cannot use any dechlorinator with it as it will deactivate the PP.

So the 1 gram must be weighted very carefully and the 1 liter must be measured precisely. Everything must be measured carefully with this stuff as it is a powerful oxidizer.

I leave the fish in this 2ppm bath for 60 to 90 minutes if the fish tolerate it well.

The advantage of this product is that it does not create resistance in bacteria and it is very fast acting when in emergency situation for bacterial infection or velvet or another fast moving parasite. I do a bath 2 days in row then I give the fish a rest for one day and if the problem is not resolve then I do another bath for another day or two. Usually that's enough.

A lot of people advise against using this stuff as it is tricky to use and dangerous if overdose but for me, it's been my savior countless times.

I use a 10 ppm strength to desinfect new plants for a 30 minutes bath.
ty for the response. it does sound rather tricky so i'll see what my chances of getting it are in the first place. i know a few people who have pools on their property to see what size formats there are. i dont have much space for item storage. if i can get a small quantity then im more open to the idea.

then again i make some WC rather complicated ie i drop a IAL tea bag into a 1g bottle for a concentrated ial water, then add a measured amount with low ppm soft water (measured) with the tap water or the tank.

i'll be checking out aquatica today to see what they have for fish and meds. i thought all this time the market was even narrower than what it already is. though the fact they ban the effective chemicals for commercial sale annoys me more.
 
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