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Can I ask when ich came into the conversation? I can’t seem to find it and I’m wondering what the symptoms are?

The most common symptoms are usually rubbing against items or swimming "crazily" and it will look like they are just darting back and forth and will usually rub against the glass similar to glass surfing.

Russel mentioned using 86 degrees for ich. She was saying that is the treatment she uses and tries first.
I brought up Ich because I had a few bettas in the past who were displaying similar symptoms as this betta is with ragged fins and they also quit eating. It turned out upon closer inspection I could see small white dots on their gills and their fins and it was ich even though they did not display the classic symptoms in the beginning.

At this point I thought recommending ich treatment would be a good idea because the garlic guard would not hurt him regardless and the salt would not either and might help his fins if it was indeed fin rot. The higher heat is the thing that would be more stressful if done quickly.

I definitely do not like treating a fish with medication unless we know exactly what is wrong or any treatment for that matter, but he looks to be in bad shape right now, so it is possible an ich treatment might work.
 

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The most common symptoms are usually rubbing against items or swimming "crazily" and it will look like they are just darting back and forth and will usually rub against the glass similar to glass surfing.

Russel mentioned using 86 degrees if it did turn out to be Ich although like the rest of us she never claimed it was ich for sure.
I brought up Ich because I had a few bettas in the past who were displaying similar symptoms as this betta is with ragged fins and they also quit eating. It turned out upon closer inspection I could see small white dots on their gills and their fins and it was ich even though they did not display the classic symptoms in the beginning.

At this point I thought recommending ich treatment would be a good idea because the garlic guard would not hurt him regardless and the salt would not either and might help his fins if it was indeed fin rot. The higher heat is the thing that would be more stressful if done quickly.

I definitely do not like treating a fish with medication unless we know exactly what is wrong or any treatment for that matter, but he looks to be in bad shape right now, so it is possible an ich treatment might work.
I should have been more clear. I was wondering what the symptoms were for her specific fish not for ich in general.
Unless the fish has spots, I’m thinking it does not have ich.
If it were my fish, I would do as russel suggested, daily or every other day cleaning and a strong IAL tea. Salt is fine but I feel in his fragile state I wouldn’t be adding anything else unless that does not help. Others may have a difference of opinion on that.
 

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I should have been more clear. I was wondering what the symptoms were for her specific fish not for ich in general.
Unless the fish has spots, I’m thinking it does not have ich.
If it were my fish, I would do as russel suggested, daily or every other day cleaning and a strong IAL tea. Salt is fine but I feel in his fragile state I wouldn’t be adding anything else unless that does not help. Others may have a difference of opinion on that.
Oh I understand sorry! Yeah I was just concerned that he had quit eating and thought she had already tried the IAL for a longer period of time but looking back I see it was just recently! I definitely agree the IAL should be continued, but the garlic guard would for sure be worth trying immediately

I hope that he makes a full recovery!
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
I know this can be difficult having fish that are ill. Stressful for sure especially when the exact cause in unknown. You feel like the time is just going by and feel as if you must help him quickly, but are not sure how. I know exactly how you are feeling right now. All you can do is your best and make the best decisions you can at the time.

What are the dimensions of the top of the tank? I have seen some very small breeder boxes before so maybe I can look around for you!
It is possible you could even make one somehow . Maybe a shallow plastic container that has never been washed in anything and is bpa free and everything? You could put holes in the sides for water circulation but not the bottom so no food would fall out?

I think even if it is severe rot in his fins. The garlic guard certainly will not hurt and may help stimulate his hunger, and neither will the aquarium salt which would help his fins.
You could even start at just 83 degree temp and 1 tsp of aquarium salt per gallon and just see how he is doing with that.

Leave the Indian almond in his tank for sure as this will help lower the ph naturally if it is too high and has antibacterial properties.
It is so difficult. I know I can only do the best I can, but I always wonder if what I'm doing is actually the best. It's very frustrating when everything you try makes absolutely no difference. I just get more concerned and sad each passing day. Thank you for understanding and for your kind words. This is exactly why I decided to join and post here. I know I'm not alone.

Here is a top view of the 3gal tank. It's 10in wide and it has the filter in the middle. I don't know what would be best or worse -- putting him through the stress of removing the filter and leaving him in the 3gal tank with no filtration and maybe a small box or moving him back to the 10gal with an isolation box. I'm guessing that there is a benefit to having him in the smaller tank and that is why the change was suggested, I just hope I'm not making things worse.

IMG_6390.jpg


I ordered the GarlicGuard, but it does not get here until Tuesday. I'm still trying to find it locally. I'll give him some brine shrimp tonight, I think those should be easier to feed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Did he display any behavior such as rubbing against things at any point? If a fish has ich they will often swim crazily and appear to rub against items almost like itching themselves. This is not always the case but it is common symptoms!
No, he has not displayed such behavior.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Like @RussellTheShihTzu I am not great with meds because they are not legal here in Canada. If he is having a hard time with his food you could use a small pipette to suck up the food and drop it down right in front of him. If the filter is too strong you could turn it off and use an air stone if you have one. Otherwise I think a breeder box might be a good idea. I don't feel like he has ICH but it is hard to tell from the photos. ICH looks like sugar sprinkled all over the fish, you cannot see it in the water or on décor, so you would not be able to suck it up.
I have heard good things about API fin and body cure, but have never used it myself. I am unsure about an internal parasite but I will say that severe rot can bring on these symptoms, so he may just be suffering from that infection. North fin betta bits or new life spectrum might be a bit easier for you because they sink pretty quickly. I find fluval bug bites float for the most part.
Thank you so much for your response. I also tend to incline more towards fin rot, but that is why I'm so frustrated -- if it's that what he has, then I would've hoped to see a better response from the treatments I've tried (methylene blue dip and Kanaplex) I've read that in severe cases it may require multiple rounds, so that may be the case. I just did not stick to one treatment long enough and instead moved to something else too quickly. Maybe someone who has used those two treatments or API Fin and Body Cure will chime in with some feedback.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I should have been more clear. I was wondering what the symptoms were for her specific fish not for ich in general.
Unless the fish has spots, I’m thinking it does not have ich.
If it were my fish, I would do as russel suggested, daily or every other day cleaning and a strong IAL tea. Salt is fine but I feel in his fragile state I wouldn’t be adding anything else unless that does not help. Others may have a difference of opinion on that.
I'll be doing frequent water changes. I'm also hesitant about the salt. There is a huge IAL in there, should I make tea instead? Is there a special way to make it?
 

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Thank you so much for your response. I also tend to incline more towards fin rot, but that is why I'm so frustrated -- if it's that what he has, then I would've hoped to see a better response from the treatments I've tried (methylene blue dip and Kanaplex) I've read that in severe cases it may require multiple rounds, so that may be the case. I just did not stick to one treatment long enough and instead moved to something else too quickly. Maybe someone who has used those two treatments or API Fin and Body Cure will chime in with some feedback.
@Veloran @KekeTheBettaDoc ?
These two know much more about meds than myself so hopefully one of them can chime in.


I'll be doing frequent water changes. I'm also hesitant about the salt. There is a huge IAL in there, should I make tea instead? Is there a special way to make it?
I would do the tea. You can make it just like you would a regular tea, just make sure the water is cool and treated before you put it in. For what it’s worth, I cured fin rot in a betta I adopted from my cousin, I only used IAL and salt and it took 2 months to see regrowth. I get your frustration completely.
 

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If you balance a net in the tank would it work to hold him? You could put the cup in the bottom to keep the net spread out; put a piece of IAL in with him.

I would be sorely tempted to do a full round of Kanaplex. At this point I don't believe it would hurt anything.

I do not see Ich. The treatment is 86 degrees; nothing lower would be of any help.
 

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The garlic guard will be good ! If he can still eat he will be tempted by it hopefully.
I think whoever recommended keeping him in the 3 gallon just meant temporarily while he is recovering so that it is easier for you to change the water more frequently since you will be doing a lot of that!

Once he is recovered I think it would be best to empty the 10 gallon completely , rinse it with hot water and sit it out in the sun to dry completely, and just cycle the whole thing and start new. It may take longer to cycle it and everything but I think it will be worth it for a fresh start.

For now if you can find a breeder box with dimensions that will fit the 3 gallon , you would still keep the filter going.

Thank you for telling me the dimensions across the top! Could you measure from the side of the filter to the tank wall? I think putting the breeder box beside the filter would be best so he would not be blown around by the filter current.
The boxes have holes on the sides for the filtered water to still come through, but you don't have to use the grate and a lot of them have a solid bottom that wont let food get through. It would solve your food problem hopefully because it wouldn't fall down under where he can not reach at the tank bottom.

I will search for some and post back when I find one. I would guess it wil have to be around 3-4 inches wide or less but once you give me the dimensions between filter and wall I can have a better idea!
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
@Veloran @KekeTheBettaDoc ?
These two know much more about meds than myself so hopefully one of them can chime in.



I would do the tea. You can make it just like you would a regular tea, just make sure the water is cool and treated before you put it in. For what it’s worth, I cured fin rot in a betta I adopted from my cousin, I only used IAL and salt and it took 2 months to see regrowth. I get your frustration completely.
Perfect! I’ll make some tea tomorrow. I did a water change this evening. He ate several shrimps and finally managed to get him a few pellets too. This little guy continues to hang in there so hopefully things will start improving at some point. Fingers crossed!
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
If you balance a net in the tank would it work to hold him? You could put the cup in the bottom to keep the net spread out; put a piece of IAL in with him.

I would be sorely tempted to do a full round of Kanaplex. At this point I don't believe it would hurt anything.

I do not see Ich. The treatment is 86 degrees; nothing lower would be of any help.
I don’t have a net that’s big enough to do that. The isolation boxes they have a Petco are too big for the 3gal tank, so I’ll have to keep looking online for one that’s small enough — or maybe a big net to go with your suggestion.

I’m tempted to do another round too, but I’m so torn. Poor little guy has endured so much. I don’t want to push it over the edge and end up killing him in the process. This is so hard!
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
The garlic guard will be good ! If he can still eat he will be tempted by it hopefully.
I think whoever recommended keeping him in the 3 gallon just meant temporarily while he is recovering so that it is easier for you to change the water more frequently since you will be doing a lot of that!

Once he is recovered I think it would be best to empty the 10 gallon completely , rinse it with hot water and sit it out in the sun to dry completely, and just cycle the whole thing and start new. It may take longer to cycle it and everything but I think it will be worth it for a fresh start.

For now if you can find a breeder box with dimensions that will fit the 3 gallon , you would still keep the filter going.

Thank you for telling me the dimensions across the top! Could you measure from the side of the filter to the tank wall? I think putting the breeder box beside the filter would be best so he would not be blown around by the filter current.
The boxes have holes on the sides for the filtered water to still come through, but you don't have to use the grate and a lot of them have a solid bottom that wont let food get through. It would solve your food problem hopefully because it wouldn't fall down under where he can not reach at the tank bottom.

I will search for some and post back when I find one. I would guess it wil have to be around 3-4 inches wide or less but once you give me the dimensions between filter and wall I can have a better idea!
You are so kind. Thank you for helping me research. It is about 3in from the glass to the filter and so far I haven’t been able to find anything that narrow. And the length also makes it challenging since the tank is round.

He’s eating well since he has not lost his appetite. The issue has been getting the food to where he can reach it since he keeps missing it. I was finally able to feed him tonight. He ate a few shrimp and some pellets. And I also noticed that he’s pooping and it’s normal — so at least things are good in that department :)
 

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I'd get a bigger net; it would be more immediate and can used while you wait for other things. While I am a positive person I am also a realist. I really don't think you have the time to wait.

Garlic is good; you can use regular garlic juice instead of a commercial product. If you choose to go with a commercial product Garlic Guard is good; Kent's is not quite as expensive KENT Marine Garlic Xtreme Fish Attractant & Supplement, 1-oz bottle - Chewy.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I'd get a bigger net; it would be more immediate and can used while you wait for other things. While I am a positive person I am also a realist. I really don't think you have the time to wait.

Garlic is good; you can use regular garlic juice instead of a commercial product. If you choose to go with a commercial product Garlic Guard is good; Kent's is not quite as expensive KENT Marine Garlic Xtreme Fish Attractant & Supplement, 1-oz bottle - Chewy.com
I appreciate your honesty, I feel the same way. I guess that’s why I’ve been a little aggressive with my treatments — I don’t really have much time to waste.
If I’m going to do the net thing, would it still make send to keep him in the smaller tank? I really don’t mind doing bigger water changes if that the only reason, so that wouldn’t be an issue for me. As long as keeping him in the smaller tank is more beneficial I’m all for it.
 

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You are so kind. Thank you for helping me research. It is about 3in from the glass to the filter and so far I haven’t been able to find anything that narrow. And the length also makes it challenging since the tank is round.

He’s eating well since he has not lost his appetite. The issue has been getting the food to where he can reach it since he keeps missing it. I was finally able to feed him tonight. He ate a few shrimp and some pellets. And I also noticed that he’s pooping and it’s normal — so at least things are good in that department :)
I am thrilled he is still eating! That is a very good sign! You are doing the best you can, just do what you can as fast as you can. As Russel said we must act quickly.
 

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You can put him in either tank; I was thinking if you use the Kanaplex the smaller tank might be easier.

Any Wal-Mart, PetCo or PetSmart should have larger nets. From experience, I suggest you take the one you have with you to compare. Don't go by memory. ;)

You can rest a 6" net in the corner of the 10 to give it more support; then tape the handle to make sure it doesn't slip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
You can put him in either tank; I was thinking if you use the Kanaplex the smaller tank might be easier.

Any Wal-Mart, PetCo or PetSmart should have larger nets. From experience, I suggest you take the one you have with you to compare. Don't go by memory. ;)

You can rest a 6" net in the corner of the 10 to give it more support; then tape the handle to make sure it doesn't slip.
If I were to do another round of Kanaplex in the smaller tank, how much should I dose assuming it’d be best to treat the tank and not just medicate the food..?

I was hopping to have more opinions about medicating as it was mentioned that @Veloran @KekeTheBettaDoc are very knowledgeable about meds, but I feel time is running out and my gut is telling me to go for it. I need someone to give me the little push I need to do it or just bring me to a complete stop.
 
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