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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
Hey there. Apologies for not getting back to you sooner. In all honesty I would go ahead with a full Kanaplex and Metroplex 3x doses 48 hrs apart at the same time-that should treat any internal and external bacterial infections as well as internal and external parasites. If that does not work I would look into consulting with a fish veterinarian or trying Potassium Permanganate (very strong antibiotic that vets use) and flubendazole (the strongest de-wormer I have come across to be safe for fish).
Thank you very much for your response! I feel so much better now knowing that you also agree doing a full round of Kanaplex is a good idea. I’m not familiar with Metroplex, but I’m going to check right now if it’s available locally so I can start it right away.
 

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Perfect! It’s basically general cure but safe to use with Kanaplex as I don’t like mixing meds not known to be safe together. Generally it’s right next to Kanaplex in the store. You feed metroplex on the food and dose the tank with Kana :)

Edit: After more research on this according to the Seachem site it is reccomended to also use Seachem Focus on the food as well to help bind the metroplex so little of the medication is lost in the water. Here are some directions I found: 1 scoop metroplex, 1 scoop focus, 1 tablespoon frozen food. Let it sit for 20 minutes to soak and feed that 1 to 2 times a day for a minimum of 10 days.


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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
Perfect! It’s basically general cure but safe to use with Kanaplex as I don’t like mixing meds not known to be safe together. Generally it’s right next to Kanaplex in the store. You feed metroplex on the food and dose the tank with Kana :)


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I’ve been buying Seachem products on Amazon because neither Petco nor Petsmart carries the entire line and unfortunately I don’t have any dedicated fish/aquarium stores nearby. I can go out of town tomorrow to one I know has it, as long as it’d be okay to start it a day later. Otherwise Monday is the earliest Amazon could deliver it — and that’s when I’d be doing the second dose of Kanaplex. Anything else I should get to go with it or that would be good to have? I ordered some GarlicGuard but doesn’t get here until next week — so I’m thinking of getting that too if I go to the aquarium shop tomorrow, unless you don’t think it’s necessary since he hasn’t lost his appetite.

I can’t thank you and everyone else enough for taking the time to respond and help me through this process. I’ve dealt with this alone for so long that it feels great to finally get advise and support. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
 

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So glad to help! He doesn't seem to be actively dying, so if you can get to the aquarium store tomorrow that would be great but 1 day shouldn't affect him too much. You can juice some organic garlic from the grocery store and soak his food in that and it should help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
So glad to help! He doesn't seem to be actively dying, so if you can get to the aquarium store tomorrow that would be great but 1 day shouldn't affect him too much. You can juice some organic garlic from the grocery store and soak his food in that and it should help.
Awesome! I’ll make sure to get some Focus too and I’ll do fresh garlic for now. Thanks again! Have a wonderful rest of the weekend!
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 · (Edited)
Good morning! He’s still hanging in there! No changes since Kanaplex was introduced, but at least he has not gotten worse. Still eating!

I wasn’t able to make it to the aquarium store yesterday, but the Amazon order is already out for delivery, so I can definitely start the Metroplex (with Focus and GarlicGuard) today. I just have two questions before moving forward...

—Should I do a partial water change before the next Kanaplex dose — if so how much?

— The only frozen food I have is brine shrimp, but I’ve read that it isn’t good to feed all the time, only as a treat. Should I get a different kind of frozen food for the Metroplex feedings or will the shrimp be okay..? He likes them and they’re easy to feed in his current condition, so at least that would be a plus. I just don’t want him to get worse by feeding him shrimp for too long since the Metroplex treatment is supposed to go on for at least 10 days.
 

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I would do a 25% water change an hour before the next medication dose
I generally use pellets when feeding Metroplex but brine shrimp should be fine, or you could rotate between the 2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
I would do a 25% water change an hour before the next medication dose
I generally use pellets when feeding Metroplex but brine shrimp should be fine, or you could rotate between the 2.
Sounds perfect! I will prepare the Metroplex mix with shrimps and pellets combined (1tbsp total) and alternate between the two for the next 10 days. I'm guessing it can keep well in the fridge for that long if that's what Seachem indicates. Thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 · (Edited)
Hello everyone. Just a quick update since it has been almost a whole week...

So far there have been no signs of improvement. Finished the second Kanaplex dose on Wednesday and continue to feed medicated food with Metroplex (Focus & GarlicGuard) twice a day on a daily basis. I’m also dosing the tank with Metroplex and today I did the fourth dose. I’m tempted to do another round of Kanaplex but at this point with no improvement I’m not sure it’d be worth a shot.

I’ve been doing a 25% water change 1hr before adding the medication and water parameters have stayed the same. He’s still eating and quite ferociously, but I think his tail and fins have actually gotten worse. He’s still laying at the bottom with the occasional dart to the top.

Any thoughts? Should I start Kanaplex again, stop Metroplex or try something else? I could do the methylene blue dip again, but the first time it didn’t do anything — I didn’t even notice any parts turning blue. I honestly don’t know what to do. I can’t tell if he’s suffering or in pain. The fact that he continues to eat well boggles my mind. I don’t have the heart to euthanize him, but if that’d be the best course of action at this point, I would ask my husband for help — I just could not do it myself.

I‘ve tried taking some new pictures but because of his position in the tank they have not turned out good. The last one is actually a screenshot from a video I took while he was moving. It was the only way I could get full fin and tail view, but even then it didn’t work out that great.

Friday 4/2
44D802E9-13ED-4392-A046-ECCBE3112BAE.jpeg


Today 4/4
D8117168-27DB-4F77-B15F-6C817D473D1D.jpeg


Today 4/4
AD2478E3-5549-4D3F-95E4-5C8BCF643665.jpeg


Today 4/4
69B220D3-DCC7-4EB7-8E51-4BE0B721E8D5.jpeg
 

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Hello everyone. Just a quick update since it has been almost a whole week...

So far there have been no signs of improvement. Finished the second Kanaplex dose on Wednesday and continue to feed medicated food with Metroplex (Focus & GarlicGuard) twice a day on a daily basis. I’m also dosing the tank with Metroplex and today I did the fourth dose. I’m tempted to do another round of Kanaplex but at this point with no improvement I’m not sure it’d be worth a shot.

I’ve been doing a 25% water change 1hr before adding the medication and water parameters have stayed the same. He’s still eating and quite ferociously, but I think his tail and fins have actually gotten worse. He’s still laying at the bottom with the occasional dart to the top.

Any thoughts? Should I start Kanaplex again, stop Metroplex or try something else? I could do the methylene blue dip again, but the first time it didn’t do anything — I didn’t even notice any parts turning blue. I honestly don’t know what to do. I can’t tell if he’s suffering or in pain. The fact that he continues to eat well boggles my mind. I don’t have the heart to euthanize him, but if that’d be the best course of action at this point, I would ask my husband for help — I just could not do it myself.

I‘ve tried taking some new pictures but because of his position in the tank they have not turned out good. The last one is actually a screenshot from a video I took while he was moving. It was the only way I could get full fin and tail view, but even then it didn’t work out that great.

Friday 4/2 View attachment 1028798

Today 4/4
View attachment 1028795

Today 4/4
View attachment 1028796

Today 4/4
View attachment 1028797

Hi I am sorry he has not improved, but at least he has not gotten worse.

A betta that is dying will not eat a lot of times and your boy is still eating!

Dont give up on him , I had a betta similar to yours!

At this point I am wondering if maybe something could be going on with his swim bladder. I may be wrong about that and it could still be a disease.

Bettas with swim bladder problems can still live good lives but you may need to make some adjustments.

If it is possible, you could move him to the 10 gallon tank and only add about 2 - 3 gallons of water. Make it deep enough to run a filter and heater but you wont need large ones. He would have both length and a shallow area.

You want it to be max of 3-4 inches deep with plenty of things to prop up on!


When you say he sinks to the bottom It could be that he does have the energy, but his swim bladder is not letting him stay up easy , so a warm, clean, shallow environment would be best!

I have heard that sometimes an Epsom salt soak can help, but I do not have experience with this.

I really do not know what advice to give about the medication. If he was truly getting a lot worse, I would say his appetite would be decreasing, that Is why I think it is something physical going on!
 

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I am going to disagree, I do not think he should be moved anywhere. Have you tried anything for internal parasite? I’m so sorry he’s not improving.
 

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I missed the part about his fins, that is the part that confuses me, it is either fin rot, or another disease we are missing.... If that is the case we just have to find out what we are missing and dont stop until we do, which may be a challenge , but not impossible.




Sara, what do you think it could be? It is something that attacks the fins for sure it seems!
 

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He does have fin rot. I am not sure if he has something else also but fin rot is an infection so it is possible that’s what is causing the other symptoms. I am no expert. My knowledge is quite limited when it comes to diseases and meds, someone more experienced than myself may have more of an opinion on that.
 

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He does have fin rot. I am not sure if he has something else also but fin rot is an infection so it is possible that’s what is causing the other symptoms. I am no expert. My knowledge is quite limited when it comes to diseases and meds, someone more experienced than myself may have more of an opinion on that.
I will admit I am no expert either !

I would try the aquarium salt at this point though. It can not be more stressful at this point. He has had many rounds of medication that are just as stressful for him.


This may seem extreme, but if he truly has fin rot and nothing else and other things like aquarium salt has been tried , there was a video I saw where a betta had fin rot and the owner applied diluted hydrogen peroxide directly to the fins with a Q tip (fins only no where near eyes or gills!). The bettas fins did fully recovery after about 45 days time (all this time the bettas fins had more and more new growth) and did fully recover.
He was not in the shape as Danigirls betta and was much healthier, but If it is a last resort maybe it could work.

I am not sure on the exact dilution but maybe something like that would be worth considering if he just is not improving.

I can not post the video because If I remember correctly we are not allowed to show surgery on fish and the person did remove a tumor that was on one of their bettas tails with pliers (I did not like watching that part, but the betta did make a full recovery with no tumor). The second betta was the one with fin rot...

I admit it would be stressful as he would have to in a tiny bit of water only in order to apply it on the fins and maybe out of the water completely for a few seconds enough to apply it, this would be a last resort only.
 

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I treated my bettas fin rot with aquarium salt and he did fully recover.. His fins were very ragged! This would be the first thing I would have tried along with the IAL.

Many may disagree but I think it is worth trying.
 

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Well, I am way too late to this party... I am sorry. That is bacterial fin rot he is displaying. I didn't read all 4 pages so I assume that someone asked and or mentioned at the onset that it looked very much like ammonia burn.
I'm kinda the worst person to talk to about now because the only things that I have viewed all of have been each pic day by day and honestly despite the comments to the contrary his decline has been spot on for 15-20 days left unless the root cause rather than the side effects of the cause is dealt with.
At this point, the choice to move or not move is not worth having. IF you do nothing he is dead. If you do the wrong thing but at least do it correctly he at least has a chance. I deal with the same thing every time I have to do oral surgery on my irrubescu puffers, I kill one out of every 6 I try to save because they will come out of the sedative too quickly and puff up but they never let that out so they die in a few hours.

Fresh water fish parasites and a good bit of gram neg/pos bacteria die in less than 3 days in 1 tsp of salt per gal. Aquarium salt, or UN-Iodized table salt in a pinch NL C2 is the same until u change it lol. Ocean Salt works also but if you arent familiar with chemistry avoid it lol. You can NOT leave the tank that this betta is in for any reason at all for no less that 30 min. If he rolls or gets a head twitch you need to have a sep tank ready with 1/4 tsp salt per gal.

The only thing that I know from my own past experiences that might save him is Nitrofuracin Green Powder. We use this medication when we bring in our wild blackwater bettas that are hitting the red on the endangered list. It treats absolutely everything excluding parasites. It will drop gill flukes and the hangon leech types wilds are plagued with but nothing that we see in the hobby. It increases both the gill and labyrinth production ratio making this fish at least breathe clearer. Any burns, holes, dmg, tears, and gram neg and pos bacteria this is 99% effect on.
Someone has certainly mentioned that everything we are seeing is caused by ONE thing. and that internal parasites are possible as is internal intestinal bacteria. No idea what was recommended. For parasites most betta peeps go with praziquantal... I consult for 5 St Louis Vets on their fishy friend issues and when I asked each of them to hook me up with this med in a pure form the reply was universal "You can't because it's so near to being useless when used solo that you can only get it combined." So once again we get to pay way tooooo much for something because people who think they know all things have never owned a bloody fish in their lives. I use API General Cure I prefer their mix and the results. for Internal bacteria, Kanamycin Sulfate can't be beat.

Now that I burdened you down with a bunch of stuff that you can't get in time to help unless you happen to live here in Missouri. The thing you really need to know is what now.

100% water change.. NO filter at all.. if you have Indian almond leaves then use 1 leaf per gallon. Banana strips would be really awesome. that is also one tied strip per gal along with the leaf. If u are using a heater in the tank atm the stop. Use a heating pad that will remain on forever. 83-84 degrees most likely. My bettas wont even breed if the water hits 86+ unless they have been outside. I keep sick bettas in 1.5 gal cubes or 2.5 gal cubes. and they get 100% water changed every day UNLESS in that first 12 hours the indian almond and banana strips turn that water a proper dark brown and the fish improves. I agree with the salt. and over 80Degrees is a must that insures the cycle of everything in the tank forcing it to hit that salt while at its weakest stage.

Honestly, everything I have said besides the last paragraph is for you to consider for your next betta/bettas. Don't give up... things happen to every single one of us. Looking at this water in each pic I can't imagine that it is anywhere near betta keeping water. That is NOT your fault either. Bettas, despite what everyone seems to think, are not able to live in mixed concrete and each bread crumbs and dog food. I have no idea what on earth ever gave anyone that idea. These people here are some of the more stable betta keepers I know. They are not pro-drug PERIOD. When I say use drugs then the fish is well past trying to help delicately. This year is my 43rd anniversary of being in the fish hobby, industry, breeding, collecting, treating, buying, and selling. I am an Ichthyologists and a binomial Ichthyologists.. guess what that means... One of my tanks crashed at 6am this morning.. just the first male that died is 150.00 loss AND the signs were all there but I got too busy with "other" projects to pay attention. I lost 8 more of the young fish in the tank and the only other male I had. so it means that we all mess up and we love fish and we learn and grow.

If you are within 50 miles of me.. I can save that fish. IF he is still alive in that time gap. I am 55 miles SW of STL Airpport. RIght on I-44. God, dogs, and tropical fish are 3 things that I will stop the world for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
Hi I am sorry he has not improved, but at least he has not gotten worse.

A betta that is dying will not eat a lot of times and your boy is still eating!

Dont give up on him , I had a betta similar to yours!

At this point I am wondering if maybe something could be going on with his swim bladder. I may be wrong about that and it could still be a disease.

Bettas with swim bladder problems can still live good lives but you may need to make some adjustments.

If it is possible, you could move him to the 10 gallon tank and only add about 2 - 3 gallons of water. Make it deep enough to run a filter and heater but you wont need large ones. He would have both length and a shallow area.

You want it to be max of 3-4 inches deep with plenty of things to prop up on!


When you say he sinks to the bottom It could be that he does have the energy, but his swim bladder is not letting him stay up easy , so a warm, clean, shallow environment would be best!

I have heard that sometimes an Epsom salt soak can help, but I do not have experience with this.

I really do not know what advice to give about the medication. If he was truly getting a lot worse, I would say his appetite would be decreasing, that Is why I think it is something physical going on!
Thank you. He had swim bladder issues about three months ago, but the other way around — floating rather than sinking. It’s possible that it’s happening again and that is why he has trouble coming up to the surface. This is most likely a symptom, I’m sure some other illness is to blame for his condition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 · (Edited)
Well, I am way too late to this party... I am sorry. That is bacterial fin rot he is displaying. I didn't read all 4 pages so I assume that someone asked and or mentioned at the onset that it looked very much like ammonia burn.
I'm kinda the worst person to talk to about now because the only things that I have viewed all of have been each pic day by day and honestly despite the comments to the contrary his decline has been spot on for 15-20 days left unless the root cause rather than the side effects of the cause is dealt with.
At this point, the choice to move or not move is not worth having. IF you do nothing he is dead. If you do the wrong thing but at least do it correctly he at least has a chance. I deal with the same thing every time I have to do oral surgery on my irrubescu puffers, I kill one out of every 6 I try to save because they will come out of the sedative too quickly and puff up but they never let that out so they die in a few hours.

Fresh water fish parasites and a good bit of gram neg/pos bacteria die in less than 3 days in 1 tsp of salt per gal. Aquarium salt, or UN-Iodized table salt in a pinch NL C2 is the same until u change it lol. Ocean Salt works also but if you arent familiar with chemistry avoid it lol. You can NOT leave the tank that this betta is in for any reason at all for no less that 30 min. If he rolls or gets a head twitch you need to have a sep tank ready with 1/4 tsp salt per gal.

The only thing that I know from my own past experiences that might save him is Nitrofuracin Green Powder. We use this medication when we bring in our wild blackwater bettas that are hitting the red on the endangered list. It treats absolutely everything excluding parasites. It will drop gill flukes and the hangon leech types wilds are plagued with but nothing that we see in the hobby. It increases both the gill and labyrinth production ratio making this fish at least breathe clearer. Any burns, holes, dmg, tears, and gram neg and pos bacteria this is 99% effect on.
Someone has certainly mentioned that everything we are seeing is caused by ONE thing. and that internal parasites are possible as is internal intestinal bacteria. No idea what was recommended. For parasites most betta peeps go with praziquantal... I consult for 5 St Louis Vets on their fishy friend issues and when I asked each of them to hook me up with this med in a pure form the reply was universal "You can't because it's so near to being useless when used solo that you can only get it combined." So once again we get to pay way tooooo much for something because people who think they know all things have never owned a bloody fish in their lives. I use API General Cure I prefer their mix and the results. for Internal bacteria, Kanamycin Sulfate can't be beat.

Now that I burdened you down with a bunch of stuff that you can't get in time to help unless you happen to live here in Missouri. The thing you really need to know is what now.

100% water change.. NO filter at all.. if you have Indian almond leaves then use 1 leaf per gallon. Banana strips would be really awesome. that is also one tied strip per gal along with the leaf. If u are using a heater in the tank atm the stop. Use a heating pad that will remain on forever. 83-84 degrees most likely. My bettas wont even breed if the water hits 86+ unless they have been outside. I keep sick bettas in 1.5 gal cubes or 2.5 gal cubes. and they get 100% water changed every day UNLESS in that first 12 hours the indian almond and banana strips turn that water a proper dark brown and the fish improves. I agree with the salt. and over 80Degrees is a must that insures the cycle of everything in the tank forcing it to hit that salt while at its weakest stage.

Honestly, everything I have said besides the last paragraph is for you to consider for your next betta/bettas. Don't give up... things happen to every single one of us. Looking at this water in each pic I can't imagine that it is anywhere near betta keeping water. That is NOT your fault either. Bettas, despite what everyone seems to think, are not able to live in mixed concrete and each bread crumbs and dog food. I have no idea what on earth ever gave anyone that idea. These people here are some of the more stable betta keepers I know. They are not pro-drug PERIOD. When I say use drugs then the fish is well past trying to help delicately. This year is my 43rd anniversary of being in the fish hobby, industry, breeding, collecting, treating, buying, and selling. I am an Ichthyologists and a binomial Ichthyologists.. guess what that means... One of my tanks crashed at 6am this morning.. just the first male that died is 150.00 loss AND the signs were all there but I got too busy with "other" projects to pay attention. I lost 8 more of the young fish in the tank and the only other male I had. so it means that we all mess up and we love fish and we learn and grow.

If you are within 50 miles of me.. I can save that fish. IF he is still alive in that time gap. I am 55 miles SW of STL Airpport. RIght on I-44. God, dogs, and tropical fish are 3 things that I will stop the world for.
Thank you so much for your response. Unfortunately, I’m not in your area, I’m in Georgia — otherwise I would’ve taken you up on the offer.

I have treated him with Kanaplex, methylene blue dip, General Cure and Metroplex. Should I try to get Nitrofuracin Green Powder? There’s quite a bit of information on your post, so I’m not entirely clear as to what I should attempt next. Other than starting 100% daily water changes, I could also turn off the filter. There is currently no filter media in there because of medication, I was just keeping it on for circulation and aeration. I’ve been adding IAL tea and there’s one large leaf in there. They are pretty big, so that’s why I only had one, but I can certainly add more if that would help. I’m not familiar with banana strips, I’ll have look that up as I’m assuming it isn’t the actual peel. I have aquarium salt which I haven’t tried this time, so I could also add some — how much would be good for 3gal?

The temp is usually at 79 with this small heater. I have a bigger one for the 10gal but I think it would be too much in the smaller tank. I have a heating pad but I don’t see how I could control the temp since it’s only low, med and high. Are there special ones for aquarium use?

I’m very sorry for your loss and tank issues this morning. That’s quite devastating. Hope the rest of your fish make it and remain safe.
 

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Hi Dani I would say if you can get the powder to get it, however you need to immediately do a 100% water change and get aquarium salt if you can as soon as possible and dose at 1 tsp per gallon. Use the IAL and do one large leaf per gallon.

Do not be afraid to use the salt, as it is not going to be more harsh. I cured my bettas fin rot with 80 degree water and AQ salt only and he had bad fn rot.
He has had many medications already and I really do think you should try this..


 
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