[arin]

I got Razzy last Sunday for my Daughter as she really wanted a red Betta.
When i got him home i noticed that he had fin rot on the tip of his tail fin. I started him on 1 teaspoon of AQ salt and it is clearing up nicely. but Today i noticed that he is hiding behind his silk plant by the heater and only comming out when coached. he hasn't been very active but he would always come out when you went up to the tank until today. he is still eating but not much at all. actually the third day we had him he even made a bubble nest. but now as i said he doesn't have much interest in anything. Please help we all love him very much and don't want to lose him.


Housing
What size is your tank? 1.5 gallons
What temperature is your tank? 75-77
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Nutrafin Max Betta Flakes
Nutrafin freeze dryed red grubs
How often do you feed your betta fish? twice a day

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? 75% 1 day and 100% next day as i an treating him for a mild case of fin rot with AQ salt
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Nutrafin betta conditioner....AQ salt right now....a small piece of almond leaf

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?
I'm assuming fine since I am changing the water every day.
Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity:

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
not sure i got him a week ago and realized when i took him home that he had some fin rot so i have been treating him for that. since I had him it has not changed except his fins are looking better
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
Well when i got him home and in his tank he would always come up to the tank when you went up to it and he was eating fine now he is staying by the heater and not comming out unless coached out and he is s.till eating but only a very little.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? i noticed that he had fin rot the day i brought him home but noticed the new symptoms today.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
I have been treating him with AQ salt 1 teaspoon per gallon since last sunday for fin rot
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
don't know
How old is your fish (approximately)?
Very young

 

[Bethydan]

If it were my fish, I'd start by adding a filter and air stone. Walmart has cheap $10 ones that will work fine for a small tank. Also, I'm not sure about the water changes. Is anyone else thinking that they should be cut back on, even with the fin rot? :-? My QT is 1.5 gallon, and when I'm treating and medicating, I change about 25 to 50% of the water daily depending on the severity of the infection. I know that large water changes frequently can create stress. We need other opinions, though.

 

[arin]

The tank had a filter but he is small and it would just push him right to the bottom that is why i took it out....i do had some small air stones that i could hook up which i will do....the reason so much water changes is because stickey said to do 100% water changes everyday for 10 days but i was thining like you and didn't want to really stress him out by doing 100% everyday. but up until today he was inproving.

 

[arin]

Well after doing some research on here and other sites I think Razzy might be in the begining stages of Dropsy :-(

 

[arin]

His belly is alittle bit bloted and is gray...his eyes are not swollen and he is not pineconed. I put him in a gallon of water with EP salt with his conditioner and his heater. Poor little guy i hope that i am wrong.

 

[LebronTheBetta]

I would upgrade his tank to AT LEAST 2.5 gallons. Maybe the Betta Bow if you want a kit. And if you think it Is DROPSY, symptoms are:
. Raised-Up scales ( Like a pinecone )
. Bloat
. Lethargy
. Etc.
I hope he feels better and good luck to you!!!

 

[arin]

Thanks oh well i have him in the gallon one right now just to treat him and the 1.5 i had my other Betta in it for about a month but he has been upgraded to a 5 gallon and i was planning on getting the same on for Razzy once he was better. I was just reading on another site that freeze dried food expands could this possibley be the reason he is bloted and has a grey belly? I really hope so. Im going to try and fast him for a day or two and see if that helps. oh and think i will be throwing the freeze dried food out and go back to the frozen shrimp and get some peltes.

 

[arin]

Well have been doing EP Salt on Razzy for 2 days now and he is not getting any better....he still hasn't pooped yet either....i got some pellets at the pet store today and he won't eat I tried everything that i have and nothing....he doesn't seem to be as bloted but all he wants to do is hide and rest. If any one has any ideas as to what may be wrong with him please let me know. thanks in advance

 

[Tikibirds]

Flakes and freeze dried blood worms can cause bloating. Blood worms should only be used as a treat - maybe once a week. Frozen ones are supposedly better. If youuse freeze dried, soak it in water first so that it will expand before the betta eats it.

I would keep him in epsom salt but up the dosage. he is in 1 teaspoon per gallon now, right? At the next water change - do 2 teaspoons per gallon with daily 100% water changes for as long as you keep up the salt reatment. Unlike AQ salt which can be harmful after 10 or so days, epsom can be used for as long as needed.

also bettas do not need airstones. They breath air from the surface via their laberynth organ. For a 5 gallon a filter is good if you want to cycle the tank but you need the API master test kit to monitor ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels. If you don't want to deal with the nitrogen cycle, don't use a filter and do 100% and a 50% water change every week. I use a gravel sipon on my unfiltered 5 gallon - makes things much easier. If you do want a filter please read up on the nitrogen cycle if you don't already know about it.

oooh, if you can get a clear pic of him that may help

 

[ANHEL123]

Don't upgrade his tank until you know he is better. And like Tikibirds wrote keep him on epsom salt and do 2 teaspoons pre gall and don't worry it can be used long term (longer than 3 weeks).

Also gray, bloated belly can be also internal pirisites. Do not share anything between him and another fish. It is contagious.

If he will poop or if you saw his poo before do you remember if it was white or clear stringy like? Or it was normal brawn, oval shape ?

EDIT:
If he is just constipated frozen daphnia is good for that.

If you confirm that his poo white or clear stringy than you need to treat him with medications.

 

[arin]

Here are some pictures i hope they help...oh and i still didn't see any poop yet and i didn't notice what it was like before this happened.

 

[lelei]

Wow this is all very interesting, I have noticed (fish poo) and it's brown, and I was wondering how normal color is, and size wise, my first betta, and first fish since I was a child, (goldfish) but this is actually my daughter's fish, and I have been overseeing everything, in any case I have been reading that if a fish is constipated, a Pea can help, cooked, and mashed and given in small pieces, if the fish will eat it, it will clean him out..one pea, so not sure if you heard of that before, I would look into it, but research it, before doing it, I don't know about fish sicknesses, or the other things you mentioned, I just hope your lil fishy gets better soon;-)Best of luck
Also, just to note, I feed "Sammy" Haikari Gold, and he loves it, I tried the Freeze dried blood worms, he avoided them, but now I know that they expand, It made me wonder why after leaving them in the water for a few minutes, the color changed, and sammy did try one, but promptly spit it out..my fishy is picky..lol

 

[ANHEL123]

lelei brown poo is like it supposed to be. Just make sure you keep him in clean water and he will live long life

arin your fish is bloated. But it doesn’t look like it dropcy. I know that you saying that you treated him with aquarium salt. He doesn’t have fin rot. Not sure how his fins looked before.

I agree with Tikibirds keep him on Epsom salt. Do daily 100% water changes.

Yes some people saying that a pea would help and some people don’t recognize it. So I don’t know ..i just texted someone for advice about that. So let’s wait. I know frozen daphnia is also highly recommended.

It really bothers me that he is lethargic.

 

[arin]

thanks his tail fin was dark brown around the edges but they are all better now. right now I only have the 1.5 gallon half full so it is easier to do water changes should this be ok or should i put more water in? Oh another question should i keep trying to get him to eat or should i just wait another day or two and try again. hoping he comes around.

 

[ANHEL123]

1.5 gall halt full is fine. I just got an answer from someone that i texted. She wrote:
If there is no poo it is constipation and 10 days of pre-dissolved 3 teaspoons per gallon of epsom salt should work just fine. If it doesn't, go ahead and try the pea but no guarentees. And if it is just SBD the epsom still helps. If internal parasites, keep on epsom and use parasite medications either food or medication.

Flakes are bad for SBD and constipation

How long he don't eat?

 

[Tikibirds]

If you up the salt dosage, do it slowly to get him used to it. Every 12 or so hours add in an extra teaspoon till you get to up to 3 teaspoons per gallon.

Even if he was bloated, he would still want to eat..i think. They can go weeks without food. I had one guy not eat for like a month.

I found this on some random fish site:

Fish suffering from internal parasites can be identified by the fecal discharge, which is usually white in color and appears as long transparent trailing string. Some might even show more severe symptoms with a sunken or bloated belly and usually the fish often become lethargic with huge drop in appetite. Sometimes the most severe cases even have the poop containing tiny whitish colored worms that are still alive.

His tail is a bit clamped and to me that indicates something is wrong someplace - something a little more serious then just bloating.

Here is what this site says about Swim bladder/bloating and internal parasites:

Swim Bladder Disease (SBD)/Bloat
•Symptoms: Betta has trouble swimming, maybe he can’t stay upright and can only swim on his side.
•Treatment: This is not a contagious or fatal illness. If it isn’t congenital (aka a condition that he/she has had since birth), then it is caused by over feeding or feeding the wrong foods. Bettas will typically recover after a day or two of Epsom Salt treatments (1-2tsp/gal) and fasting. You can help prevent a reoccurrence by switching to a better pellet food, feeding less and offering a more varied diet. To make it easier for the betta to eat and breath, you can make the water shallower. You can offer him/her frozen daphnia (sold at Petsmart) as daphnia will help him/her pass stool. DO NOT FEED THEM PEAS

Internal Parasites
•Symptoms: Betta is losing weight but eating normally and acting lethargic.
He/she might dart or rub against decor.
•Treatment: These can be hard to fight and can get confused with the fatal disease Tuberculosis. Perform daily 100% water changes (if possible, for larger aquariums change 3/4). Make sure you carefully clean the gravel to remove eggs/larva. Aq.Salt does not seem to be affective against internal parasites. I find combining ES with an anti-parasite med is best. Treat with 1-2tsp/gal Epsom Salt combined with either Jungle’s Anti-Parasite Pellets, Jungle’s Parasite Clear Fizz tabs or API General Cure.

 

[ANHEL123]

Thank you i was going to write back. I didn't want to scare arin. Thank you for posting symptoms for internal parasites’. I hope he doesn't have it. It is difficult to get rid off. It doesn't look like he has internal ....unless his poop will be white, clear stringy like...

 

[arin]

Thanks so much guys this is kinda helpful right now i don't think its internal he is not darting around or rubbing on anything and he is not eating normally and he doesn't really match SBD either ugh....ok so i should up him to 3 teaspoons of EP but over time I will start that tomorrow.....thanks again it is so nice to that there are other people who actually care....if anyone thinks of anything else let me know....if he doesn't seem to be getting better by friday and if he is still with us i am probley going to try some meds to see if that helps.

 

[Tikibirds]

I would up the salt. It won't hurt him.

Try Pming either oldfishlady or sakura8..they might be able to tell you what mediation to get

 

[ravenwinds]

I noticed that your heater is a preset one that runs at low temp...for bettas anyway! He might be lethargic if his water temp is under 76degrees. I had that heater and my betta was very lethargic. Maybe you could go out and get an adjustable heater and up his water temp to 78 to 82 degrees F.
Also, it is strongly advised not to give bettas peas as that can give them bloat!
In addition, check the sticky to be sure, but many diseases involve increasing temp above their normal 78 to 82 degrees F....I know external parasites treatment suggests temps of 85+degreesF...

As an aside, it looks like he is close to full grown as it appears that he has full fins and color...so not "very" young.

Good luck! I hope he gets better.