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Discussion Starter #1
My betta has been in a 10 gallon for almost a year, I believe its cycled but I haven't been seeing nitrates which I heard means it's not? I just thought it was because I've been doing large water changes for months trying to get rid of the fin rot.
It took me a while to notice because it just happened so slow. I started the aquarium salt route and it never helped so after a lot of googling I tried different medicine.
First I used ich x and maracyn, didn't work. Then I did kanaplex and furan 2 and that didn't work, I've also tried fungus guard and that did nothing.
Two days ago I stopped meds and giving him a break. All I'm using now is almonds leaves, prime and api stress coat along with daily water changes. He's just getting worse.
This picture was taken the day before yesterday and he looks way worse now. His tail now has holes near the base of his body so I won't be surprised if it starts coming off. The rot on his dorsal fin is just starting to reach his body and is starting to get discolored.
Surprisingly he's acting himself 90% of the time and eats good. He does flick himself against stuff now and then and about once a day he'll swim erratically into things.
But he seems to be getting worse by the hour, not sure if he'll make it.
My question is should I focus on big water changes or more meds?
I ordered methylene blue, it should come any day now but I have read it could be dangerous but at this point I'll try anything.
Any help is appreciated. 20200823_095515_resize_55.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Housing:
How many gallons is your tank?
10
Does it have a filter?
Yes
Does it have a heater?
Yes
What temperature is your tank?
80
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Air stone
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind?
No

Food:
What food brand do you use?
New life spectrum and fluval big bites
More rarely, frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp
Do you feed flakes or pellets?
Pellets
Freeze-dried?
Blood worms and shrimp
How often do you feed your Betta? How much?
Maybe 5 pellets once or twice a day

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change?
Once a week
What percentage of water did you change?
60-70%
What is the source of your water?
Tap(dechlorinated)
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water?
Substrate but it's hard with the sand and plants
What additives do you use? What brand of conditioner?
Prime

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water before the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:0
pH:7.5-8
Hardness (GH): not sure, but on the harder side?
Alkalinity (KH):

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms?
Months ago
How has your Betta’s appearance changed?
Torn up fins/ pieces coming off
How has your Betta’s behavior changed?
Not much just some rubbing on stuff and a little erratic swimming.
Is your Betta still eating?
Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how?
First used Ich x and maracyn
Then kanaplex and furan 2
Then fungus guard
None helped
Does your Betta have any history of being ill?
No
How long have you owned your Betta?
A year
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased?
No
 

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Hi, can you get us a picture of your entire tank.
Also, can you test your water again, those reading seem a little off for testing before the water change.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It's probably because the daily water changes but I just tested again this morning and everything was still at 0.
Here's a pic of his tank, I took the wood out so there would be nothing for him to bump into.
How much water should I be changing daily?
20200828_093803(0)_resize_49.jpg
 

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Water changes for regular are 50% a week in a 10g. While he's sick, you can do 2 x 25% - 50% a week is fine for him. Make sure to stir up his gravel really well, there's a lot of debris that can get trapped in there and affect his water quality.

Outside of making sure his tank gets a good clean, he's pretty much been hit with all the regular meds, I'll need to research a little. I've seen something like this with an older fish of mine, was never able to figure it out. Hopefully this isn't the same.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Water changes for regular are 50% a week in a 10g. While he's sick, you can do 2 x 25% - 50% a week is fine for him. Make sure to stir up his gravel really well, there's a lot of debris that can get trapped in there and affect his water quality.

Outside of making sure his tank gets a good clean, he's pretty much been hit with all the regular meds, I'll need to research a little. I've seen something like this with an older fish of mine, was never able to figure it out. Hopefully this isn't the same.
I thought daily water changes were a must with bad fin rot?
This is him now, this morning he had a few scales missing on his head. I actually thought he would be way worse this morning at the rate he's been going so I guess that kind of good lol He's been sleeping in late but he was super excited for his bloods worms so that's good. 20200828_130000_resize_75.jpg
20200828_130012_resize_39.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #8
He's not doing too good. Yesterday and today he's been mostly hiding and when I try to lure him out to eat he starts frantically swimming and crashing into things. I hear him hit the lid really hard and then he goes back to hiding and then he started turning white from stress, I don't know what else I can do for him :(

I haven't been able to get a closer look at him but I don't think he looks worse at least but I'm worried what's causing him to swim erratically, it looks like he can't control it, is it neurological?
 

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I get what you mean but as a last resort maybe try it. There’s people who SWEAR by aquarium salt and especially if nothing else is helping him
 

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I believe salt was tried already.

Anyway, with as many things as you've tried, and with the behavior you just described I'm wondering if the kinder thing would be to put him to sleep :(
 

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It's more about water quality than water changes when it comes to fin issues. Most people have their bettas in a 2.5 gallon tank which is why they are recommended daily water changes, since you have him in a 10 gallon, maintenance is much easier for you (which is why we always recommend to get as big a tank as you can).

At this point, I would try to get a hospital tank with just some fresh water, a heater, filter is optional and someplace for him to rest at the surface. Keep the tank covered and in darkness for as much as you can and if he's been off meds for a couple of days, start another round of Kanaplex.
The idea is to separate him from whatever is affecting him in his current environment, get him over he current hump and then figure out what's going on in his tank.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It's been two days that's he's been staying at the bottom and not eating, I've also noticed reddish spots on him which is septicemia?
So last night out of panic lol I dosed the tank with E.M erythromycin and this morning he was up in his floating log and he ate some new life spectrum pellets! There was no erratic swimming either, he ate and went back in his log and I didn't see any red on him.
I don't want to get my hopes up but he seemed a little better.
Also whenever I cover the tank the temp shoots up high? Last night it went up almost 4 degrees just from a towel being over it!

I like the idea of a hospital tank but I'm so worried because he freaks out if I move him. I think the most thing he'll like is the 5 gallon bucket, he's more used to that. Would that be ok? But it'll be hard to see and check him though.

I have this thing I set up a few days ago that there's just plants in it. It's a few gallons with a heater and filter.

Here's a pic of him this morning and the other container I have.
Let me know what you think.
20200830_090902_resize_99.jpg 20200830_091928_resize_40.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ok I just bought a 2.5 gallon for him. A few questions, the small heaters usually just go to 78 degrees and his tank is at 82 so what's the best way to acclimate him? Would the heater in the 10 gallon be too much for the small tank? And next, would I do 50% water change daily?
Thanks for the help.
 

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Hi! What did you end up doing?
The water temperature could be attained through something like turning off the heater in the large tank and adding a little cooler water to get it a couple degrees closer to the smaller tank, that should be close enough.
I believe that's correct, 50 percent water changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi! What did you end up doing?
The water temperature could be attained through something like turning off the heater in the large tank and adding a little cooler water to get it a couple degrees closer to the smaller tank, that should be close enough.
I believe that's correct, 50 percent water changes.
I'm leaving him in his tank for now since his treatment takes 4 days to be completed, I wasn't sure if I should move him in between doses of medicine?
I set up the hospital tank and luckily it goes to 80 degrees.
 

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If it will fit, you can use the same heater in the smaller tank. Unless a heater malfunctions even a 300 watt will work in a two gallon. The difference is it will heat faster. At least that's what I've observed.

Small adjustable heaters will heat as high as the larger one. Hydor is one and Hygger is another. I've used Hydor; not sure about Hygger.

If the heater you are now using is adjustable, lower it by one degree every 24 hours until it reaches 79-80. If the meds require 82 degrees then wait.

Use a thermometer and temperature match the tap water. I like to go a couple of degrees higher. Add the heater from the 10, leave unplugged for 15 minutes or so (more is better). When both tanks reach the same temperature move your boy into the smaller tank. No need to acclimate if parameters and temperatures are close.

As Mbpoppy noted, some people add cooler water to get temperatures down. I'm not a fan because if you mistakenly add too fast the temperature drops too quickly.

Can you post a photo showing the red spots?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
If it will fit, you can use the same heater in the smaller tank. Unless a heater malfunctions even a 300 watt will work in a two gallon. The difference is it will heat faster. At least that's what I've observed.

Small adjustable heaters will heat as high as the larger one. Hydor is one and Hygger is another. I've used Hydor; not sure about Hygger.

If the heater you are now using is adjustable, lower it by one degree every 24 hours until it reaches 79-80. If the meds require 82 degrees then wait.

Use a thermometer and temperature match the tap water. I like to go a couple of degrees higher. Add the heater from the 10, leave unplugged for 15 minutes or so (more is better). When both tanks reach the same temperature move your boy into the smaller tank. No need to acclimate if parameters and temperatures are close.

As Mbpoppy noted, some people add cooler water to get temperatures down. I'm not a fan because if you mistakenly add too fast the temperature drops too quickly.

Can you post a photo showing the red spots?
The meds in the tank right now is EM erythromycin, it doesn't say anything on the package about the temp. I'm just not sure how to move him to the hospital tank and not mess up the amount of meds. Like do I fill the hospital tank with all of the old water and then the next dose I add will just be the amount for a 2.5 gallon, Or wait 4 days until he's done with the meds?

The red spots disappeared after I put the erythromycin in last night. I haven't seen him all day today because he's just been under his leaf.
 
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