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Discussion Starter #1
I've been flareing my pair of a couple of days, today Thea escaped the cup! Luckily pokey isn't overly aggressive. He's busy building a nest and Thea is resting/hiding close by I had no intention of letting her lose for a few days even though she has the breeding bars because the male has been stubborn. But she has other plans o.o

This pair is rather mellow Both can successfully live in community tanks and the little girl has no issues being in a sorority.

I don't know if I'm being overly cautious but I'm probably going to remove her if I can get her out of the end of the tank with a the nest -_- she doesn't seem to want me to take her out.. I'm watching them like a hawk because I really don't want to lose either of them

( First ever breeding attempt nervous Nelly)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Well my fears have kind of been pushed aside they are flirting! She keeps going over to check the nest and then back to the other side of the tank to watch him. Apparently she isn't satisfied yet so he's going to keep building
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm definitely not used to the aggression wow! Thea is my first female so I'm being kind of protective :/
I don't even have any ripped fins yet I did notice she lost a scale though. My water is hovering at 80-81°f and it's been cycled with a filter (which is off now)


The male can't seem to get his bubbles to stick... they just merge together I'm not sure what would cause that but I think it's frustrating him
 

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Do you have Indian Almond Leaf in your tank? some males are poor bubble nesters, some simply have trouble with the water quality. IAL helps keep the bubbles and makes a safe place for the nest to not get blown apart by air moving over it. You can put bubble wrap in the tank as a docking site for the nest, as well as a styrofoam cup over the area where the nest is.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Apparently it didn't post earlier but yes have a very nice IAL in there for him he finally figured out bubbles

but I've run into a snag, Thea might have x-factor genes or rose effect genes and I'm not entirely sure i just want to scrap the spawn
Can someone help me out here? I need some advice
 

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Edit: noticed she posted the photo I sent her, but it's kind of unclear. So i'm leaving it up.

Hi Sadie, I noticed this last night. A visualization may help, I went in with my art tablet and outlined the scales in the affected areas and labeled them.
Other then what is shown in this photo, the fish has pinched areas in the caudal, dwarfed ventral fins, and a spot with hanging rays on the anal fin. All are indicators of X-factor if you don't see any scaling issues. This fish has a mild case of it. However, because it's genetic and can have significant impact on the lives of the fish, it's best not to breed one with x-factor.


A fish is symmetrical, it should not have any scales at different sizes until the sizing changes based on where the scales fit on the fish(for example, the head or near the base of the caudal).

The best example I have of non-x-factor has always been fish with BSE because the outline of the scale will show where it should match up. This is one of my girls.

The scaling should be next to perfect.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I did remove her at least for now I'm not going to be home this weekend they have not spawned. I do see a couple of scales in person on her that are slightly larger but the misalignment I can't see looking at her and looks like her coloring in person.
The hanging rays could be caused by something else, I did notice her ventral fins were small but I thought it might h been due to how she was kept before I got her they are also bent like she spent a lot of time resting on them, many fish who have been in cups have bent vents. I noticed it on a couple of my boys too and they definitely don't have any of the other indicators.

I'd like other breeders to take a look too. Over all she's a beautiful fish and I'm kind of holding out hope for her
 

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If you know of Amanda Wiseman, I consulted with her before saying anything to you to make sure that it wasn't just my eyes. The bent ventrals, dwarfed vents, don't come from resting. With males, it can because their vents are much longer and more susceptible to damage. The patch of hanging rays is a strong indicator, almost every fish with X-factor will show either a dip in part of the fins or an area of fin that sticks out/hangs where it's not supposed to. The larger scales are not normal on any fish, if you see that, it's x-factor. It's a deformity. Even if ignoring every other part of what seems to be strong indicators, those larger scales should tell you.
With each photo presented, I see strong signs. This is from the breeder photo. I brightened it slightly so you can see a bit better, and outlined scaling and issues in red that indicate x-factor without the interference of arrows and words. The green represents what the fish should present if it had no signs of x-factor.

This isn't malicious, It's a matter of being a good breeder. She's perfect and gorgeous as a pet, but I would not continue lines that have x-factor. It's not humane for the fry :(
 

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Discussion Starter #12
When I get home, I'm going to start conditioning my black orchid ct girl. She's small but very pretty and I'm perfectly ok with using her instead of Thea. Her name is arura .

I'll get a good picture when I get home :) I was considering just doing my orchid pair anyway but I'd really like the diversity the marble brings out, I also have a blue ct girl I could use

Or as a final option if nothing else works I could use the new hm orchid I purchased after her quarantine. the 2 new girls are really big! None of my other girls are quite that size
 

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Anything you breed to your butterfly male, will come out with marble fry as butterfly is related to marble :)
comb tails are pretty too. I got marble fry from a hmpk BSE red and a solid steel blue female. You never know!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
He's not butterfly, he's marble :) I'm thinking breeding him to the orchid ct girl will bring out his dragon scales in the offspring ( I am pretty sure she's dragon Geno ) he's got the thick scales but instead of being white they a metallic I want to breed Aurora or one of her offspring to an hmpk to strengthen the rays of the ct, and do the same with mouse my male
 

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With the finnage markings he has, he's technically a butterfly.. which is marble. Marble is dominant so all of the fry will be marbles regardless of who you breed them to :p
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Where his tail and fins were clear he's now black and red o.o it's a stunning contrast he may not be done changing yet. If I go for a second generation out of this spawn could I get orchid out of them? Or is the marble just so dominant that it wouldn't matter
 

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The marble would definitely be dominant, Some may start out orchid and go completely cello. Some may start cello and go orchid, some may change their entire lives. There's no good rhyme or reason to marble, lmao!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I have my orchid hm girl in with him, this poor guy is such a push over! None of them have sustained damage which is surprising ( im including Thea who is no longer going to be bred) the ct girl had no interest at all but this lady has been isolated so I'm going to cross my fingers
 

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Discussion Starter #20
So am i, I'm not sure if I will be able to get this huge push over to breed the girls chase him lol I would be so happy though he's such a lovely boy in really glad i grabbed him

He finally has a nest I had to give him a piece of bubble wrap he and the new girl are getting mosquito larvae and my special mix of food I've used on all of my Bettas and occasional mini (very mini) mealworms she's in isolation for 24hours in a warm cupboard to see if it entices her to spawn
 
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