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Discussion Starter #1
I am getting a pair of imports for my first breeding attempt.
Male is a blue, turquoise, white, orange marble PK with red spots of his anal fin and one on his dorsal, he has it all... Female in "orange dragon" HMPK, she has red/orange fins with white tail that has black outline, half her body is nice orange and half white dragon scales.

I'm hope I will get at lest a few interesting looking marbles, what do you think?
 

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Can't wait too see the results. Marble betta is always interesting, they change colors so many times.

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I managed to take this very professional looking photo of a male. Female did not like my phone and I had no patience so her pic will have to wait.

Hope this bad pic is good enough for now =)


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Welcome to the Forum! :wave:

Both Betta are beautiful!!!

I hope you take this in the spirit it is meant:

Your boy is a multi-color but not a marble. Note that marbles do not have banding like your boy. Defined by the International Betta Congress (governing body for Betta enthusiasts):

"The Marble Betta, like the Butterfly, is a Patterned Betta. However, it is variegated in a different manner. The key differences are the lack of fin banding and the presence of other colors on the body in a 'marbled' effect. Two types of Marbles exist, the 'Traditional Marble' and the newer 'Colored Marble' which may have many colors other than the black/flesh/white combination. Though cellophane is sometimes considered to be a genetic marble variant, it is not classed as a marble phenotypically. The fins and body must show at least two colors. These must include a light and dark color mix. Fish exhibiting sharp 'edges' to the marbling pattern are preferred over those with blended colors."

While a multi is:

"This designation is for Bettas with two, preferably three or more colors that do not fit into any of the other patterned categories. Ideally, the colors are in high contrast to each other. The colors are those normally seen in Bettas. However, simply having the head alone a different color or only having a different color (Black head in traditional iridescent colors) or only having a different color on the tip of the ventrals is not sufficient to be designated as Multicolor. Judges need be particularly cautious of Bettas shown as Multicolor that show as a second color only a fine wash, such as a 'Blue with a bad Red wash.' which is not sufficient."

Your girl is a lovely orange and white but she is a normal scale; not a Dragon. A Dragon should have a solid opaque body with thick scales that look as if they've been brushed with thick paint. Their scales should look like a knight's armor.

Whether one shows or not, the IBC judge's PDF is a really good reference for types, patterns and colors because oftentimes sellers get it wrong. You might want to join or at least download from the link below (and free issues of "Flare").

Best of luck to you in your breeding program!

Click on Exhibition Standards for right download:
https://www.ibcbettas.org/download/1498/
 

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Welcome to the Forum! :wave:

Both Betta are beautiful!!!

I hope you take this in the spirit it is meant:

Your boy is a multi-color but not a marble. Note that marbles do not have banding like your boy. Defined by the International Betta Congress (governing body for Betta enthusiasts):

"The Marble Betta, like the Butterfly, is a Patterned Betta. However, it is variegated in a different manner. The key differences are the lack of fin banding and the presence of other colors on the body in a 'marbled' effect. Two types of Marbles exist, the 'Traditional Marble' and the newer 'Colored Marble' which may have many colors other than the black/flesh/white combination. Though cellophane is sometimes considered to be a genetic marble variant, it is not classed as a marble phenotypically. The fins and body must show at least two colors. These must include a light and dark color mix. Fish exhibiting sharp 'edges' to the marbling pattern are preferred over those with blended colors."

While a multi is:

"This designation is for Bettas with two, preferably three or more colors that do not fit into any of the other patterned categories. Ideally, the colors are in high contrast to each other. The colors are those normally seen in Bettas. However, simply having the head alone a different color or only having a different color (Black head in traditional iridescent colors) or only having a different color on the tip of the ventrals is not sufficient to be designated as Multicolor. Judges need be particularly cautious of Bettas shown as Multicolor that show as a second color only a fine wash, such as a 'Blue with a bad Red wash.' which is not sufficient."

Your girl is a lovely orange and white but she is a normal scale; not a Dragon. A Dragon should have a solid opaque body with thick scales that look as if they've been brushed with thick paint. Their scales should look like a knight's armor.

Whether one shows or not, the IBC judge's PDF is a really good reference for types, patterns and colors because oftentimes sellers get it wrong. You might want to join or at least download from the link below (and free issues of "Flare").

Best of luck to you in your breeding program!

Click on Exhibition Standards for right download:
https://www.ibcbettas.org/download/1498/

Wow, that was a very informative reply. Many thanks :)

I think the female was labelled as "dragon" is because her white scales, even though not too thick looking, have a very nice, strong, pearly sheen in the right light.
As for the male, I fell in love with him so much I did not even question his label lol

Now I'm in a pickle. All the research I did was on marbles and their offspring. I did not care much about other patterns so now I don't really know what to expect. It's both exciting and terrifying :)

Also, male is a bit on a skinny side so it may take time before we can progress.
 

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Hey and Welcome to the forum

The female seems to look to old and big for the male if you're trying to breed them, it would be really hard for the male to wrap around her and there is also a chance the female might be more aggressive then the male. But overall your male has very nice colors and I'm just giving a heads up, dont want his fins being all damaged.

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Discussion Starter #10
They both are roughly 3.5cm head to tail but female sure is much bulkier and looks like she can kick some butts... but like I said, male is a bit skinny and I hope some TLC will get him into shape.
All I can do now is hope for the best.
Thanks for Your concern GazHMPK :)
 

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Wow, that was a very informative reply. Many thanks :)

I think the female was labelled as "dragon" is because her white scales, even though not too thick looking, have a very nice, strong, pearly sheen in the right light.
As for the male, I fell in love with him so much I did not even question his label lol

Now I'm in a pickle. All the research I did was on marbles and their offspring. I did not care much about other patterns so now I don't really know what to expect. It's both exciting and terrifying :)

Also, male is a bit on a skinny side so it may take time before we can progress.
This makes me feel much better. I see so many people who have received mislabeled Betta and am torn between educating and letting well enough alone. But I finally decided if a forum's purpose is to educate not only the OP but anyone else reading I might as well put on the flame suit. :)

For instance, I see so many who call metallic Betta "dragons;" this is especially true if the Betta is has black fins. :dunno: The difference is a Dragon *must not* have a metallic sheen; it must be opaque and is usually pure white like your girl's scales. In future, if you are identifying and the scales are not opaque you know the seller has mislabeled a Betta. Now you can differentiate between the two. So there's another little tidbit for you. ;-)

I think you are in for a fun time as you see what you produce from this pairing as they are very nice specimens. You might get some really interesting colors. Can't wait to see them.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I started letting male and female see each other over the weekend.
Female does not seem to be impressed by the male but she will flare at her reflection.
Male, when he sees female, goes nuts, not only does he flare at her, he swims all around the tank like he does not know what to do with himself.

Not a good start of a relationship is it?

Anyways, male is gaining weight steadily and both seem happy in their new homes.

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There is reflection for the female betta tank. That is what's causing her to flare at the other side. Try covering the other side with a light color paper as darker background can cause a reflection.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
There is reflection for the female betta tank. That is what's causing her to flare at the other side. Try covering the other side with a light color paper as darker background can cause a reflection.
That was a good advice, divider between them was a black plastic =) swapped it for a white printing paper and she is not spending so much time on this side anymore.

In other news, female is changing colour. She now has, barely visible, blue edge on her anal fin and turquoise on her caudal. Also, pearly sheen on her white scales is now yellow-green. She is going to be a a butterfly just like the male =)

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Discussion Starter #15
My first spawn was planned for next week as temperature was to rise to 25degrees and up but unfortunately that's been pushed to the first week of July...
Female is getting round from the eggs but now I'm worried, since I have to wait at least three more weeks for the right conditions, is this not to long? Will she keep the eggs for a this long or just drop them?
Maybe I should just get a heater and face the wrath of my husband? =)

Thing is, I planned this whole betta breeding project as an experiment for this summer, like people do with outdoor ponds but indoors. Only reason hubby did not mind much is because I said it will not cost him any money =)
It would be really awesome if someone could confirm my girl will not drop her eggs before time is right.

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Male and female are both in the breeding tub, female in her glass protection. They both seem very interested in each other. Male has already build a nice bubble nest.
I'm going to release he tomorrow and we'll see if we get a successful spawn or a complete fiasco.
Tried to take photos but turned out dark and blurry. I did not want to disturb them too much.

Big day tomorrow... I don't think I will be able to sleep at all tonight =)

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Discussion Starter #17
Made this video of my fish. It is a really bad video (no light and through plastic) but you can see male flaring at female in the first half, second half is just him building the nest.
I made this video just to show the ones who are curious what the males form is like. Unfortunately you wont be able to see just how vibrant his colours are.

 

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Discussion Starter #18
I released female at 8:15 am this morning and they went at it straight away. I was surprised by how gentle they were with each other. There vere many successful and failed wraps but by 1pm they were done so, I removed the female before male got any ideas.

There is not one scale missing, not a fin thorn. They really are a good fit.

I just went with a torch to see how many eggs is there and I think there's somewhere around 20+
Not too many but it's what I expected for their first try especially since the first few wraps I saw male diving for eggs but not spitting them into the nest.

Hopefully the eggs will hatch and, I have to admit, for my first spawn ever, I glad it's a small one =)

Fingers crossed for the babies. They are in a room temp of 80f. All the live food ready and I can stop worrying about the parents for a moment.
I could use at least one baby though, so that I know if there's a reason to start again next month or maybe get another pair now.

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Discussion Starter #19
Just noticed first fry trying to wiggle its way out of the egg!!
Approximately 30hours after spawning is a LOT earlier than I expected. Since I have no heater and night temperature is a bit lower (day 25-28, night 20-22) I thought hatching will take longer than usual.

Even if this spawn die, at least I know none of my bettas are infertile but I may need to use a heater with the next spawn.
All depends on how this first batch does.
Temp is to drop for a week on the 6th than go back up again.

Male looks tired and bored, thank heaven's he will not have to be in there much longer.

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Discussion Starter #20
There seems to be a lot more fry than I thought. In the first photo you can see what to me looks like hundreds of tails...

I'm testing my BBS to see if it's a good batch, if not, there's still time to buy more.

Vinegar eels on a standby and I just remembered I forgot to buy coffee filters....


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