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Discussion Starter #21
As of yesterday the fry are free swimming, male removed this morning for a well deserved rest.
I added some vinegar eels into the tank for the bigger fry but noone seems to be interested in them just yet. I can't blame the fry when eels are about half their body length =)
There is a ton of plants in the tub and I just added water lettuce from my shrimp tank. The fry should have enough of microorganisms to get them going. I saw some white little dots moving around on the walls.

I will start small water changes today, just to replace water after cleaning the bottom of the tub. I saw one fry on the bottom, not sure if dead or just resting, will confirm after the maintenance.

It's quite overwhelming to thing that the easy part is over and now the babies rely on me but honestly I could not be happier.

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Discussion Starter #22
Fry are eating vinegar eel and I only lost one that I could see. They do not seem to be getting any bigger but that may be due to my constantly watching them and probably why I can't see any difference?

I added water wisteria to the grow out tank a week ago and now it's overrun by millions of tiny snails...could anyone recommend a snail killer snail that will not leave milion eggs all over the tank?

Also, can fry eat cyclops?

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Discussion Starter #23
6 of the fry are now dead. One on first day, two the next, three today. Awesome.

I blame it on overfeeding as there was many microworms on the bottom of the tub.
One of the coffee filters had a hole and I lost a lot of vinegar eels, hope I have enough to feed the fry that still keeps close to the surface.
I'll try to feed less but more often.

I'm pretty sure I'll kill this first spawn with the lack of experience. Never had to feed fry that could only eat live foods and could not stand water changes. Than again, some people had luck with egg yolk, I may try that.

I guess I was to hasty with microworms but so many of the fry now stays at the bottom searching for food.

I also sucked up quite a few fry while cleaning the tub so those will probably turn up dead tomorrow.

P.S. some of the dead fry were deformed so it can't all be me.

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Discussion Starter #24
Found five dead fry today and I also noticed something. Some of the dead fry are sort of swollen, bigger than other dead fry and white, does that mean anything to anybody?
Anyways, fry are now 5days since free swimming and some people had moved on to bbs by now and I still have fry barely big enough for microworms.
I feel like at this rate I would be lucky to be left with any fry and, as a bonus, I am not gaining any experience because I don't even know what I'm doing wrong. Am I overfeeding, am I not feeding enough. Is there a problem with water changes or some disease. I've no clue!

Anyways, I have asked few questions on here and was left without a answers, I can only assume noone really reads this.

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Found five dead fry today and I also noticed something. Some of the dead fry are sort of swollen, bigger than other dead fry and white, does that mean anything to anybody?
Anyways, fry are now 5days since free swimming and some people had moved on to bbs by now and I still have fry barely big enough for microworms.
I feel like at this rate I would be lucky to be left with any fry and, as a bonus, I am not gaining any experience because I don't even know what I'm doing wrong. Am I overfeeding, am I not feeding enough. Is there a problem with water changes or some disease. I've no clue!

Anyways, I have asked few questions on here and was left without a answers, I can only assume noone really reads this.

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You're asking at the wrong area.

Do you have any photos of your fry?

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Discussion Starter #26
I thought why make several new posts when I can ask here, my mistake I suppose =)
Here is photo of the fry, there weren't 5dead just 3, two must've been sleeping or something.
Also, I am overrun by ramshorn snail everywhere. I even have some in my fry tank and I was so careful :/


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Discussion Starter #27
I bred them in a 40litre tub filled with no more than 10 litres of water. It's shallow but has a rather large footprint and the fry is scattered all over. I thought water will be easier to keep clean that way.
And You're right, it's not easy to distribute the food to everybody.

I started BBS last night, something I should've done days ago...
No dead fry this morning so that's a good news.
Bad news is my partner caught a betta bug and is talking about buying another pair to breed. I tried to explain to him it will bring more cost than just price of the fish but it's like he can't hear me lol
One pair is enough for me =)

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Discussion Starter #28
Since I started feeding fry with BBS there is no dead fry that I could find. Although there may always be some in the plants or eaten by the army of snail.
Some of the fry seem to only stay by the surface and do not move much. Those are the ones I almost never see eating bbs and are much smaller than the others.

I got me a giant, 150ml syringe for water changes. It's easier to use than turkey baster and easier to clean too.

Hitchhiker snails are now taking over the tanks making large, daily water changes inevitable. I decided against drip method and just squirt fresh water from my monster syringe into the tub, gently, into the plants.
I wanted to take photos of the tub to count the fry but there is so much snail poop it would be an impossible task. I'll wait until they get bigger.

Parents are doing good recovering although my girl got a little pale. Maybe she got stronger colours in breeding mode and now is back to her normal self? Hopefully.


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Discussion Starter #29
I had this idea. If the smallest fry wont eat the bbs, why not give them walter worms they were eating before? Worked quite well. I saw all of they fry eating worms and only saw a couple of dead ones so I guess it worked. Hopefully they can still bounce back, although, I'm worried they may be stunned at this point and I may have to cull them anyway. Still I could not bare the thought of just doing nothing and letting them die...

Bad news, temp droped by about 3 degrees Celsius and is to drop to 22-23°c for the next couple of weeks.
This will be a real challenge for the fry and I know only the strongest will survive but that's the whole point of not having a heater, let nature do it's job.

I have to say, if people bred bettas for hardiness rather than quantity or colours, these fish would have been better off =)
Just saying, I get these are tropical fish but nowhere in the world temperature is constant for months and months. I would not want my fish feel like they're in some breeding camp where their instinct constantly tells them they HAVE to breed because temperature if right...for 12months of their lives? After they can't breed anymore they are still kept at the high, summer temperature, no regards for season change? Winter in bettas home countries can be quite harsh, compared to the summer, and they deal just like every other creature.
Home bred fish are far to delicate in my opinion.
It's funny how every now and again you see in the forums how people freak out because their heater broke, I know, I've been there. Where in the wild things happen, weather can suddenly change to worse and fish just deal with it. Strong ones do anyway. But that's what evolution is all about isn't it? It's just like how we threat people with some disease where the disease could sometime die with the carrier...cruel but that's how you keep the species strong and ultimately save lives, no? Instead, we make ours weaker.
Just like we do with fish. We keep them in temperature that is "just right", we sterilize our equipment, making them weaker and weaker, generation after generation.

If anyone has actually read all this, sorry for a long post that has very little to do with "spawn logs" but I don't really have anyone to say this to so, here it is, just some philosophical mumbling of someone under influence =)

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Discussion Starter #31
How are they doing now?
Fry are doing fine, thanks for asking. For some reason I did not get a notification so, sorry for a late reply.

Since my lat post I can't remember finding any dead fry although there are still some tiny ones. Sizes very, some fry are half the size of the others. Still, I thought they'd be bigger by now as the first month is almost behind us.
Anyways, fry now know that when I open the cover it's feeding time. Make feeding easier but water changes a little harder. I use small syringe for feeding and large one for water changes, when fry see the large one they think it's feeding time and end in a current of new water being added. Silly things.

Now I'm kind of worried about them taking their first breath as I've read not all fry survive that.
I was originally planning to spawn my bettas two, maybe three times but now that I see how much fry there is from just that one spawn, I have my doubts.

I'll check-in again after first fry start breathing air.

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I look forward to it! I want to breed one day and I feel as though your experiences can help all beginners. Please keep us updated! I’ve heard the first one is always hard! Don’t be discouraged.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Quick update. All fry are doing fine, no deaths that I'm aware of. Could not do water changes in any of my tank for quite a while because of a medical condition but I don't think it affected the fry much.

From Friday there is going to be another temperature drop, longer one this time, lasting at least a week. Fry did well the last time, although it was only 3days. We'll see.
I'm planning to reduce feeding because of the lowered metabolism caused by low temperature and the should do just as well as they did the last time. Hopefully temperature drop will not last longer than a week.

Either way, this is going to be a good test for my little experiment.

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Discussion Starter #34
Standard english weather returned to UK and with it died all my plans for next no heater breeding of my beautiful pair (unless I convince hubby somehow lol)
I still have at leas 50fry, maybe that's enough anyways.
I have fry in different sizes. Few giant 1cm, quite a few tiny 5mm and rest in between. The biggest ones are starting to show colours and, even through lite in there is crap, I'm pretty sure one is going to be orange! If I can get at least a few orange-white or better yet orange-white with a splash of blue, my goal will be reached and I can call it a success.

Now that temperature droped to an average 22°c, my babies will take forever to grow. Started feeding grindal worms every other day. No idea how to get fry eating dry foods.

Also, forgot to mention, I found a fry that had what I can only describe as cotton mouth... he was the guinea pig from my other post so I can't really tell that was with him but other fry seem fine for now.

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Discussion Starter #35
Fry in the grow out tank are doing well but I still saw one fry eating another. Weird.
The biggest fry show nice blue and orange coloration, some are either orange or just have orange bits. There seems to be more orange than blue. But that can change.
Betta daddy is not almost completely aqua blue, barely any white on him and even lost some of his orange fins. A little disappearing I have to say but at least his bride stays the same.
Male betta does not seem to be very happy, he does not swim to much has clamped fins. He eats ok and is always happy when he sees me so I think he may just be lonely. I've been neglecting his mirror exercises.
I think I may try and breed my pair again even though temperature is about 22degrees.

Male pic before and now and a photo of fry that won't stay still.


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Discussion Starter #38
After separating the fry and increasing the volume of water changes, the fry has grown quite a bit. There is 20big ones in the grow out tank and 50 or more still in the breeding tank. I feed mostly grindal worms now and have ordered repashy gel food. Hope they'll like it. Any suggestions for first dry/gel food are welcome. I was going t feed daphnia but my whole culture died overnight. No idea why.

In other news, my beautiful Butterfly Torpedo has velvet...I tried salt and now I'm trying copper. So far no improvement, in fact, he is getting worse. Even though I use same equipment for water changes, noone else has any issues, hopefully it'll stay this way although I am quite worried.

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Discussion Starter #39
Moved the rest of the fry to the grow out tank and was forced to add a heater as temperature is to go below 17°c in couple of weeks. I used the opportunity to increase temperature now as its easier to get fish from 23 to 26 than from 20 to 26.

I hope the big guys won't eat their smaller siblings.

Daddy is getting worse. Copper treatment did nothing for him and now he spends his days on the bottom of his tank. His lady is still in great shape but he doesn't have the strength to impress her anymore and now she is no longer interested in him during their date nights. Not sure if I should torture him with another medication just yet.

I ordered new daphnia culture and already set up two tubs for them. I have to re order repashy for some reason but fry seem to enjoy Discus Bio Gold. Who knew.

My experiment ends here. I wanted to raise fry without heater to raise tough and resilient fry but I was promised long and hot summer and it ended rather soon.
I can now honestly say, stable high temperature are not essential in breeding bettas however my fry is about a month behind same age bettas of other breeders as far as size goes. Except for the big guys.

I have now got about 80 fry in various sizes. That is going to take a whole lot of jars/water bottles/tank dividers. Hope I can rehome them all before Christmas as it's a good time for impulse buy and bad time for bettas.
I will post photos of the fry once they are big enough.

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