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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
SUMMARY OF CURRENT ISSUE:
Over the past month, my up-to-now healthy vibrant boy has had thinning fins, low-to-no appetite, clumsy eating, fading color, sleeping more, and as of this past week, mostly floats kinda sideways at the top, with intermittent bursts of energy. His GH/KH are lower lately than they used to be, but pH is stable at 7.0 and nitrates/nitrites are at 0. His scales look pale but fine (no growth, film, or pinecones) and he’s not bloated. He’d be slowing down for about a month, but symptoms have been severe for almost a week. I’m so scared for him. I’ve been doing fairly aggressive water changes (30-40% daily) for a few days and he seems gradually better each day – he even ate a pellet of food today and is exploring more of the of the tank! (just the top, but still improvement!) But he's not himself; I know he’s unwell and want to save him. Based on my research it doesn't seem like dropsy or swim bladder or parasites, or etc.. Is he just old? I've only had him for 7 months, but who knows how old he was when I got him...

DETAILS:

The fish:

I got my healthy-looking boy of unknown age from a Petsmart in June 2022. Before becoming unwell, he was a vibrant red with an iridescent light blue sheen along his body and on the very edges of his fins. He loved to eat and swim in zips and shimmies whenever he wasn’t asleep or resting. If I approached him while resting he’d shimmy over to me to say hi. Very sweet boy.

Housing:
He’s by himself in a 2.5 gallon tank with a filter and heater that keeps temperature steady within 78-82F. No aeration besides what the filter provides by moving the water around. He has a plastic hammock, two live plants, and a plastic log for hiding. Gravel substrate.

Food:
I use Imagitarium Betta Pellets, and Zoo Med Dial-a-Treat (includes dried bloodworms, daphnia, and mysis). When he was healthy, I fed him as instructed on the Imagitarium Betta Pellets container: 2-3 pellets, 1-2 times daily. The Dial-a-Treat I would give occasionally if he was being especially cute. If I did that, I’d reduce the number of pellets fed.

Maintenance:
I was changing ~20% of water every 1-2 weeks before he got sick. I’d siphon out the water at the substrate level to remove debris. The water put back in depended on my comfort level:
  • Sometimes I didn’t trust my own treatment of the water, so I’d use Activ-Betta Bio-Activ Live Aqueous Solution Betta Water.
  • When treating my own (Boston tap) water, I treat it with API Stress Coat, API Quick Start, and Top Fin Readistart Nitrifying Bacteria Starter (all proportioned according to the volume of water being replaced into the tank). Once he became unwell I also got Zoo Med Betta H2O and API BettaFix, (again, proportioned according to the volume of water being replaced into the tank). I let the water rest 24 hours before performing the water change.
Whether my own treatment or the Activ-Betta water, I let it rest in a container that also has a heater in it to be sure it’s the right temperature before adding it.

Water Parameters:
I use API 5-in-1 test strips. The water chemistry had been consistently good, with Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 0, pH: 7.0, Hardness (GH) 80, and Alkalinity (KH) 60.

But lately, the GH and KH (but not pH!) have been lower. pH is till stable at 7.0, but GH hovers closer to 40 and KH hovers closer to 30. Nitrite/Nitrate still at 0.

Symptoms and Treatment:
He started getting clumsy with food around late November. I’d go to feed him, and he’d act eager to receive it, but he’d miss the food more often than not. He started zipping around less and resting more often, usually along the bottom or in his log.

A few weeks ago I noticed his fins were looking tattered. There’s nothing sharp in his tank, no companions. He doesn’t appear bloated, there’s no weird growth on his scales and his scales look smooth (not pineconed), but he has paled a bit. I started feeding him less because when he missed the food it would sink to the bottom, and I didn’t want an accumulation of rotting food down there.

He‘d been less mobile and clumsy with eating for a few weeks by the time I left for a trip a week ago. I was away for three days. My dad house-sat for me and although I gave instructions on how to feed him, I think he may have forgot and overfed. However, I highly doubt he actually ate anything because he’d been so clumsy and somewhat disinterested. However, the food would have been sitting at the substrate uneaten and decaying.

When I got home this past Friday (4 days ago), he was experiencing another algal bloom (see below) and he was floating passively and sideways at the top of the tank. I had bottles of Activ-Betta water available so warmed that up to 80F and did a partial water change first thing. Since then, I’ve been doing water changes daily – about 30-40% – and each day he seems better relative to the day before, but oh boy was that bar set low. A lot of floating sideways at the top of the tank, close the edges. Not really eating, even when I hold it right in front of him.

Will he get better? Is he just old? I don’t know what else to do for him and can’t tell what’s even wrong exactly. He was so happy and healthy from June-December but this past month has been rough. I love him so much.


Algae issue, in case it matters:
Since early on, later summer, he’s had an algae problem. In August it got so bad that I performed a water change and put him in another container (of current tank water) while I wiped off all his ornaments and substrate and scraped the walls to get rid of the algae (just water, no soap). The resulting tank water was 50/50 old and newly-treated tap water (rested 24hrs, same temperature as the old water). At first he was fine but by end of day he was in such a shock I thought he would die. He got better within a couple days and was back to his zippy self, but that event scared me from performing water changes for a few weeks. During that time though, I checked his water chemistry almost daily and parameters were always good. Once the nitrates/nitrites looked a little off (~September) I started doing partial water change every 1-2 weeks with Activ-Betta water. But that’s too expensive to use while keeping up with how often his water needed to be changed, so I got the confidence to treat my own water again. It was going well for months. The algae was still there, but his water parameters were always good and he seemed like a happy boy. Even made a bubble nest back in October!

Pictures from November/December:

Plant Fish supply Petal Fish Aquatic plant
Plant Pet supply Organism Terrestrial plant Fish supply


Pictures from today:
Liquid Water Fluid Organism Barware
Liquid Water Fluid Wood Terrestrial plant

 

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It may be dropsy, but I am not 100% sure. it may even have a parasite spore. spores will eat the fish from the inside out, and will also make it float to the surface from how weak it is. Bettas tend to lose color when stressed or trying to fight a disease.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for responding Fish Expert!

Everything I read about dropsy suggested I should see bloatedness and pineconed scales if that were the case, which he thankfully does not have. But, I am a novice. Would treating him with an antibiotic for dropsy (to be safe in case that's what it is) harm him if it's not drospy? I found some recourses suggesting that it could be dangerous... So before treating him for it I'd want to confirm it somehow.

Regarding that it could be a parasite spore, two questions:

1. How might he have gotten the parasite spore, so that I could prevent that happening again?
2. How would I treat the parasite spore?

Thank you again! <3
 

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Im sorry your betta boy is not doing well.Can you circle the parasite spore in the picture? I really would request a top above picture as well. He lloks thin, but the top picture would help.
It may be dropsy, but I am not 100% sure. it may even have a parasite spore. spores will eat the fish from the inside out, and will also make it float to the surface from how weak it is. Bettas tend to lose color when stressed or trying to fight a disease.
This doesnt really seem like dropsy IMo.
Your betta buddy does seem to have finrot. Finrot Is more less caused by a bacteria or fungus. More often than not, you will be dealing with bacteria, but it’s important to know what to look for when diagnosing fin rot in your betta fish. Fin rot is normally reconized by degrading, tatered fins, whcih your boy seems to have.The main cause of fin rot is poor water quality, and with the fat that your changing the water once every week or two weeks in a 2.5 gallon, could create a problem. 2.5 gallon is a wonderful size for a betta, but it requries more maitenence as the smaller space lets poop, and other water parameters bulid up quite quickley. From now on i reccomend changing your betta's water twice a week. I think this would provide benifical clean water parameters for your beautiful boy. i undertand your using test strips, but they don't seem to reconize nitrite or nitrate in smaller tanks. I do think that your boy is definetly being underfed, as you siad you were feeding him less. 2-3 pellets is already not quite enough, but with the reduced feeding he is definetly not getting enough. I think he is becoming skinnier and clumsier becaus he is getting weaker without food. I have to go, but i will come back and give more detail soon. I reaaly need a top pick. thanks! Talk to you when i get back from an appointment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you TropicalFlow3!

It has been consistently once a week for 2-3 months or so, but I definitely intend to increase to twice week (or even a little less water but daily?) once he's recovered from this.

As of today: this is day four of 30-40% daily water change.

The clumsiness started a couple months ago when he was still enthusiastic about eating, he was just really bad at it! But now I've been trying to feed him for days, but he won't eat. :( Even if I hold it right in front of him! I've tried his pellets, and bloodworms (which he used love) and daphnia. He's also tending to keep his face towards the glass, so he doesn't really orient himself to even notice that there is food most of the time.

Are there ways to make him eat? I'm using Bettafix for his fins; it has a strong smell, so could it be masking his ability to smell and desire the food?

I ordered the API Master Test Kit yesterday which should be arriving in two days. Got some aquarium salt too (arriving with the test kit), since I read that might help. I also ordered Seachem Equilibrium for the seemingly low GH, but I don't know if I actually need to use that or not.

Below are some above shots (the light reflecting off the algae on his gravel makes the water look green at this angle, but it is clear actually)
Organism Slug Tail Terrestrial animal Fish
Plant Tableware Organism Kitchen utensil Bat
 

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Im sorry your betta boy is not doing well.Can you circle the parasite spore in the picture? I really would request a top above picture as well. He lloks thin, but the top picture would help.

This doesnt really seem like dropsy IMo.
Your betta buddy does seem to have finrot. Finrot Is more less caused by a bacteria or fungus. More often than not, you will be dealing with bacteria, but it’s important to know what to look for when diagnosing fin rot in your betta fish. Fin rot is normally reconized by degrading, tatered fins, whcih your boy seems to have.The main cause of fin rot is poor water quality, and with the fat that your changing the water once every week or two weeks in a 2.5 gallon, could create a problem. 2.5 gallon is a wonderful size for a betta, but it requries more maitenence as the smaller space lets poop, and other water parameters bulid up quite quickley. From now on i reccomend changing your betta's water twice a week. I think this would provide benifical clean water parameters for your beautiful boy. i undertand your using test strips, but they don't seem to reconize nitrite or nitrate in smaller tanks. I do think that your boy is definetly being underfed, as you siad you were feeding him less. 2-3 pellets is already not quite enough, but with the reduced feeding he is definetly not getting enough. I think he is becoming skinnier and clumsier becaus he is getting weaker without food. I have to go, but i will come back and give more detail soon. I reaaly need a top pick. thanks! Talk to you when i get back from an appointment.
I am back. For the eating issue. I would go to the nearest local fish store and buy some frozen bloodworms. I would also get a paire of tweezers and thaw some of the bloodworms, grab them with the tweezers, and put that right near him. If he still won't eat, you can try dipping the forzen bloodworms in garlic juice and then dangle them in front of his face. You said he has been floating lots on his side, does he ever try to swim down? If he does, does it seems he floats back to the surface, as though he can't go down? another reason why i thik he is less active is bcause of the less feeding, i think he may be getting weaker because of him not eating much. When betta fish don't get fed enough (or infact many animals and even humans) they do' not get much energy. This would be why you don't see him zipping arund like he used too. Does his eyes look cloudy? It is possible he is going blind and that would also be why he is getting clumsier with food. I think i should also say that the Frozen bloodworms arent a permanate food, but assuming that he is underweight, they should fatten him back up. I also think that once and if your betta starts acting normal again, you should start feeding him 5-6 pellets twice a day if he can catch them. Have you tried flakes?.

Okay, more on the finrot. Poor water quality isn’t the only cause of fin rot. On top of this, fin rot can occur due to overfeeding or underfeeding. Inconsistent feeding can stress your betta fish out, causing their immune system to weaken and increasing the possibility of fin rot occurring. You can start treating the fin rot with extra water cahnges, like you have been doing every day. I think you should also add Indain almond leaves.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I will get the frozen bloodworms today. For garlic juice: literally juice squeezed from a garlic clove?

He's not sideways as much as he was a few days ago. Sometimes, but mostly upright now. He doesn't even try to swim down. When he has bursts of energy he just skims along the top. (Before I left for a few days last week, he actually spent a lot of time down there, more than usual. Even spent almost a whole day in his log one time, which was its own kind of concerning.)

About "Can you circle the parasite spore in the picture?" I don't know that he has one; it was suggested by The Fish Expert.

Regarding the Bettafix, assuming I should still be using it: Directions say to add a proportioned amount daily for a week, then do a water change. If I water change daily, which I feel pretty confident is the right thing to be doing right now, is that diminishing the benefit of the Bettafix?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
He ate a frozen bloodworm soaked in garlic juice! 💖. He won't eat another though. I hold it literally right at his mouth and gently touch his mouth with it and he'll sometimes kinda nibble but not eat. I've been trying to get him to eat it for 5 minutes. Even broken it into smaller pieces in case maybe it was too big, but no dice. I'll try again later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Okay, now he's eaten a pellet that was soaked in garlic. And it seems like he wants more (little excited shimmy and pectoral fin flutters), but it's as though even with it literally right there on his mouth he just can't coordinate himself to get it? And he's insisting on being right on the edge of the tank, making so difficult to situate himself better. sigh I'll keep trying...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
He ate another pellet! 😍 Sorry for the by-minute updates y'all 😅 I'm just so excited he seems to be turning around a bit.

So, that's a bloodworm and two pellets today. Maybe after such an empty tummy that's good for now and I should let him rest without me shoving food in his face! I'll try to feed him again tonight if that's recommended. Otherwise I'll wait till tomorrow when maybe he'll have more energy from this meal. And do it before the water change so I can suck up all the food that will inevitably fall in the attempt...

I'm still troubled that he's having such a hard time even being 'hand' fed. Have others had such difficult-to-feed betta friends?
 

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In the past I had a crowntail who was a difficult to feed. He had a deformed back it seemed always bent over not any illness did that to his back. He was a tong fed boy. Lived a great life about 4 years like that.
Also a female who was ill and her feeding was a bit difficult as well had to hand feed her. She lived 3 years after her recovery from underfed and ich. Ive raised many rescued bettas so many stories but don’t wanna flood your post. Right now though currently, Jalen who was a rescue from underfed and fin rot and another who has bloat issues.
Good luck with your betta.
 

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Thats great that he is eating! You can try feeding him every two-three hours, but no more than 3 pellets/food bits at a time for now. If that schedule doesnt work,
He ate another pellet! 😍 Sorry for the by-minute updates y'all 😅 I'm just so excited he seems to be turning around a bit.

So, that's a bloodworm and two pellets today. Maybe after such an empty tummy that's good for now and I should let him rest without me shoving food in his face! I'll try to feed him again tonight if that's recommended. Otherwise I'll wait till tomorrow when maybe he'll have more energy from this meal. And do it before the water change so I can suck up all the food that will inevitably fall in the attempt...

I'm still troubled that he's having such a hard time even being 'hand' fed. Have others had such difficult-to-feed betta friends?
I would reccomend trying to feed him once more, but just start feeding him whenever he will eat. Hopefully, once he gets fed and starts eating regularly his boiouncy problems will subside. PLEASE update us, and feel free to ask more questions. The betta fix won't provide much use IMO. I hope his finrot gets better, as you havent said much on that!
 

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Thats great that he is eating! You can try feeding him every two-three hours, but no more than 3 pellets/food bits at a time for now. If that schedule doesnt work,

I would reccomend trying to feed him once more, but just start feeding him whenever he will eat. Hopefully, once he gets fed and starts eating regularly his boiouncy problems will subside. PLEASE update us, and feel free to ask more questions. The betta fix won't provide much use IMO. I hope his finrot gets better, as you havent said much on that!
I would reccomend feeding him three times a day at minimum, if thats not possible then at least two (hopefully bigger )meals for now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I just tried to feed him again, a bloodworm and a pellet, but he didn't go for either. He refuses to eat; I may as well be a ghost. I'll be trying to feed him every (waking) hour (I thankfully work from home and he's my desk buddy). But I don't know what to do if he refuses to eat.

The fin rot does seem to be healing! Slowly, but I do see some blue coming back at some edges. I understand this will be a gradual healing.
 

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Well I was told it’s a mild case so aquarium salt and 25% water changes daily. Im waiting for my Indian almond leaves to ship and when they do get here Im putting them in my tank to mimic his habitat in the wild. Tannins will work. Don’t do aquarium salt for no more than 10 days in a row or it’ll stop working.
 

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It may be dropsy, but I am not 100% sure. it may even have a parasite spore. spores will eat the fish from the inside out, and will also make it float to the surface from how weak it is. Bettas tend to lose color when stressed or trying to fight a disease.
Your boy has no symptoms of Dropsy, he does not have any indication of a parasite "spore." And parasites do not make fish float to the surface from weakness and he is not being "eaten from inside." Sorry to be so blunt, but wanted you to know you don't need to stress over those things. It is true, however that Bettas tend to lose color when stressed.

First, I apologize, but I am unable to comfortably read large blocks of text. If I ask questions you've already answered it's not because I'm not paying attention. :)

To your boy's real issues:

Fin Rot/Biting or Decor damage: Did the damage to his fins occur slowly, over months? Or did you start noticing pieces missing almost overnight? To me, he honestly looks to have been fin biting which may or may not led to fin rot. The best thing you can do for him is to add either Indian Almond Leaf or plain Rooibos Tea to his water. You can either float a leaf or teabag or brew a strong "tea" of either, condition and add to his water. Both of these have antifungal and antibacterial properties.
Flower Plant Nature Sunlight Grass
Fish supply Pet supply Event Aquarium Marine biology

The water should be no lighter than on the left and can be as dark as the right. I prefer somewhere in between.

Nutrition: When fish are nutritionally deprived, one of the first things to go is the eating reflex; this is why it is often difficult to get them to eat. All you can do is keep trying and hope the reflex is triggered.

Sadly, it is hit or miss on recovery. This is because there is also slow damage to internal organs. It can take months for the damage manifest. That's why owners often don't really think anything is wrong even though their fish "just isn't right."

We see this quite a bit. I blame it on uninformed people warning about "overfeeding" without explaining or knowing what it is. For instance, a Betta fed 16 pellets per day; spread over four or five meals three hours or so apart is not overfed. Give them 16 all at once and we're overfeeding.
Head Eye Fin Underwater Koi

From above, fish should look like a torpedo. There should be no indentation between skull and body.

I hope he does well for you. If you can get him eating even a little bit that is best. We recommend frozen Bloodworms only for compromised fish. They are too fatty for healthy fish to have as other than a weekly treat. This fattiness is why they are good for compromised fish.

There are also two products: https://www.amazon.com/Boyd-Enterpr...fix=boyd+freshwater+vita-chem00,aps,98&sr=8-1 and Seachem - Nourish. They might not help but they certainly can't hurt. The Boyd you can add directly to the water column
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Thank you Betta06 and RussellTheShihTzu!!

He definitely seems he could some fattening up from the bloodworms if he'll eat them! Once his appetite is back and he's eating regularly I'll scale the bloodworms back to a treat.

The fin rot has only been visible for about a month. In late December he looked fine. Hard to recall if it was over a matter of days or weeks or more sudden. I don't think it was overnight.

I have an almond leaf. It's pretty big... If I put in too big a chunk it will get in the way of trying to feed him. Proportional to the surface of a hexagonal tank, what's a good size piece to put in? Do you replace it after X days/weeks?

I've read the leaf can lower pH. His pH has been very stable at 7.0 (or sometimes a smidge less) which seems good and not something I'd want to change. I'll just keep an eye on that then?

How do daily water changes affect the impact of the leaf?
I have a big ol' thing of treated water that I'm keeping replenished and doing replacements from - I could put a piece of it in there too?

Question about the filter: The current makes it hard for him to eat right now, since he's being so slow about it. And if he's weak right now I imagine he must be physically tired. Since I'm doing daily water changes for now, will it be safe to keep the filter off until he's stronger?

I'm afraid I fell victim to the 'don't overfeed' narrative. I feel absolutely awful this may have happened due to my ignorance. 😢 I love him so much...
 
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