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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OAK LEAVES, have been recommended to me by Old Fish Lady a while ago, and I have been using them religiously ever since...living in southern Ontario, we have PLENTY and various species as well!

If you are like me and like using natural remedies and organic products when working with Bettas, you may be interested to know that OAK LEAVES (in my opinion, as well as many others), provides numerous benefits to out Betas, in Spawning, Fin repair, Decreasing Stress and improving overall well being!

This is due to the natural tannin the leafs release when exposed to the water, tinting the water color to a golden brown, without affecting visibility! Also mimicking their natural environment.

Oak Trees are native to Ontario, and there are various species found in North America and other parts of the world...to major species, Red Oaks and White Oaks..

I have chosen to experiment with Three OAKS in my area and compare the outcome that the leaves produce without toughing the jars at all! You can follow along with updates pf the water color changing..

I will document;

- Tannin color
- Leaf Composition/ Composure (In water and Out)
- Approximate float duration before sinking
- Any negative reactions to water..
- Daily water tests


I will post Daily Pics of the progress of both day light, and back light exposure to truly see tannin effect in water. I have started by Taking a pic of the leaf in groups of Fresh Leaf from the tree, A Dried Leaf, and Group of Dried Leafs.

The leafs tested: (in order as they appear)

WHITE OAK RED OAK ENGLISH OAK

- Nice bright color - larger, sharp edges - smaller leaf
- Longer rounded lobes - Can get Very DARK! - very hard structure
- Resemble Betta -Bright Red in Fall - good for nests
- Can be large full grown - Can be HUGE full grown - light dried color


NOTE:
Keep in mind these leaves have died this summer. They have been on a branch that broke, therefore breaking the supply of nutrients to the leaves. This in turn kills the leaves and allows them to hang and dry in the air..

I will conduct another test similar to this in the fall, when AMAZING COLORS are produced in the leaves and it will be very interesting to see how this will affect the water...

Hey all around the word, Updates tomorrow...

BETTA BOY
 

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I'll be very interested in your results. I have two huge red oak trees growing behind my deck and while I can't use any leaves that fall on the ground (my condo ground crew uses pesticides), TONS of them land directly on my deck. I'd rather bag them then rake them. Thanks for doing this. :)
 

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So do you just let them float on top? Is that bad to do? I was going to let my amazon sword leaves float on top after they fell off but figured that would be bad... D:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
3 Hour Update

I know I said I would update tomorrow, but I cant believe ho much color change has occurred with the ENGLISH OAK Already (far right).
The RED OAK has had a slow start (middle) and the WHITE OAK is starting to color with a light orange (far right)..

Phoxly, if your referring to the alive plant (ASL) than it should be under the waters surface. These leaves are dead and used for medicinal purposes...
If your talking about dried leafs, I would have to do some research on them...But I have never used them so cannot say..

I will post some updates later tonight around (10PM eastern), as the progress has been significant in such shorts amount of time...I will then include, water readings and more info..


From CANADA...to around the world...

BETTA BOY
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
9 Hour Update

Not much new, especially in the color, but I said 10pm eastern, so I thought I would report..

The leafs have started to slouch down applying pressure onto the stem base in all leaves, therefore dropping them closer to the bottom of the jar. The RED OAK, is not breaking down as fast as the outer jars (White, and English) therefore keeping its composure and staying upright.

- The water is reporting 0 ammonia, and stable levels otherwise.
- English Oak holds lead for strongest color..(yellow)
- All three are blotching differently. I will post pics tomorrow
(White- not much deterioration Red- large blotches, English- small black dots)

As I mentioned, there has not been much color change in the 3 jars since last update, yet there is an obvious difference in the release of tannins in all three..Keep in mind the natural sunlight is not coming in the window now and the jars all seem darker! The greatest color change is the English, with White and Red following respectively. We will have to see what Red will do in the future, IME RED gives off a darker huge, so we will see...

thanks for reading..

BETA BOY
 

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I put one grade c indian almond leaf in a 1 gallon jug of water and it turn brown the next day. plus indian are so cheap even if you buy grade A.. Also I have never heared of bettas in the wild living in oak leaves, and there is know information or or research saying that oak leaves are equal better or close to indian almond leaves. They have been using indian almond leaves since the betta splenden it self. Why try to re invent the wheel, why mess with something that is not broke, All these top breeder's and not even that IBC showing and top betta fighters use indian almond leaves, and there's a reason why.

I am very open minded but without the fact's, I just don't see using oak leaves. It's just hear say and people just using what they have around them, but IAL is only 10.00 which last month's and month's Its not expensive to use IAL..
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
GENUS Quercus

Hey for someone open minded, you don't seem to open to other people trying to expand their horizons...

Reinvent the wheel? This is mother nature were talking about here...FloridaBetta...just because the ancient bettas didn't have oak trees hanging over their ponds in ancient times, doesn't mean they weren't hangin over some other pond bringing the same benefits to other fish around the world...

There are over 600 species of OAK TREE aorund the world and many in YOUR area! To think that not one of these leaf specimen form the oak does NOT have equal or more chemical benefits to water or our betta would be ignorent...

I would love to see some of you research that shows OAK LEAVEs are NOT "equal better or close to indian almond leaves".

And $10.00? For a leaf?? ..Do you pay your your Bettas water too???

Now im even more excited to find the results of my experiment... I may also go collect more species and allow for a wider range of test results...

Here are some links that show other peoples success and use of these leaves...(many different varieties of OAK)

http://www.nespal.org/leaf litter.html

http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanes...Y+Blackwater:+Make+your+Own+Oak+Leaf+Extract+

IAL link, stating "Oak leaves are often used in aquariums as an alternative. "
http://theaquariumwiki.com/Terminalia_catappa

BETTA BOY

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Update: 2 new leaves

I have visited the local arboretum on the University and found two uncommon oaks, and thus added 2 new oak leaves to the lineup...almost a day behind from the start of the experiment (1:00pm eastern yesterday).

Both new OAK species are form the White Oaks group...The two new leaves are..


Quercus muehlenbergii- Chinquapin Oak


Quercus montana- Chestnut Oak

These two oaks are great as they really resemble an IAL....Especially the chestnut oak...actually looks very similar in shape, size and texture (hard when dried)



This is the new line up...same order, with Chinquapin and Chestnet respectively...



White Oak - Red Oak - English Oak - Chinquapin Oak - Chestnut Oak

I have noticed that the Red Oak still has not released much tannin in the water..however this could be due to the fact the leaf was not 100% dried out...I have used Red in the past and found it to release very DARK tannin..I will do a side experiment and only use 100% dried red oak and test its tannin release in tat sense, as I know many of you have Red Oak on your property!

BETTA BOY
 

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I put one grade c indian almond leaf in a 1 gallon jug of water and it turn brown the next day. plus indian are so cheap even if you buy grade A.. Also I have never heared of bettas in the wild living in oak leaves, and there is know information or or research saying that oak leaves are equal better or close to indian almond leaves. They have been using indian almond leaves since the betta splenden it self. Why try to re invent the wheel, why mess with something that is not broke, All these top breeder's and not even that IBC showing and top betta fighters use indian almond leaves, and there's a reason why.

I am very open minded but without the fact's, I just don't see using oak leaves. It's just hear say and people just using what they have around them, but IAL is only 10.00 which last month's and month's Its not expensive to use IAL..
You also have to remember that this species is man made-domesticated and has not seen its natural habitat waters, like most of the farm raised fish we keep in our homes.

True enough that oak trees may not be in their native habitat but the Betta may not know this....I am of the opinion that if I can get the same results from local products that are often free and close at hand...I will keep that $10.00 in my pocket and use it for something else....lol.....

To each their own.....and I have been using native oak leaf instead of IAL for years and have yet to have any problems and I see the same results, but-I will agree that the tannin are much darker with one IAL than my native oak leaf unless I use a lot of them...but they are free so it is a non-issue for me......

...too bad Leo Buss didn't publish his spectrographic analysis on oak leaves that concluded that oak was 99% identical to almond chemically and the fish can't tell the difference anyway.....
 

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Hey for someone open minded, you don't seem to open to other people trying to expand their horizons...

Reinvent the wheel? This is mother nature were talking about here...FloridaBetta...just because the ancient bettas didn't have oak trees hanging over their ponds in ancient times, doesn't mean they weren't hangin over some other pond bringing the same benefits to other fish around the world...

There are over 600 species of OAK TREE aorund the world and many in YOUR area! To think that not one of these leaf specimen form the oak does NOT have equal or more chemical benefits to water or our betta would be ignorent...

I would love to see some of you research that shows OAK LEAVEs are NOT "equal better or close to indian almond leaves".

And $10.00? For a leaf?? ..Do you pay your your Bettas water too???

Now im even more excited to find the results of my experiment... I may also go collect more species and allow for a wider range of test results...

Here are some links that show other peoples success and use of these leaves...(many different varieties of OAK)

http://www.nespal.org/leaf litter.html

http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanes...Y+Blackwater:+Make+your+Own+Oak+Leaf+Extract+

IAL link, stating "Oak leaves are often used in aquariums as an alternative. "
http://theaquariumwiki.com/Terminalia_catappa

BETTA BOY
I am very open minded, You or someone show me the proof. The fact's that they are equal or greater than IAL then cool I will walk out in my yard and grab some...
The next thing is it's 10.00 dollars for 200 gram's of IAL. LoL 10.00 for one leaf I know your not that ignorant... And of course I pay for my bettas water if you want to be ignorant, when you use water it goes on your electric bill or water bill. So yes you pay for the water. LoL funny guy you...
 

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Hey BettaBoy84, I'm looking forward to seeing your results on this experiment, but the photos of your last post are not showing up. I don't know if it is my computer or if it is an error on your side. And if you don't mind me asking, could someone explain the advantages of the tannin in the water and what not? (Not meaning to hijack the thread ;-)) And at FloridaBettas239 you may not be trying too, but you are sounding like a real female dog. I believe the whole point of this thread is to show the effects of the oak leaves and see how they compare. He has shown some evidence of the positive effects they have had, just look at the threads he has linked. Other member has posted positive results too, just look at Oldfishlady’s post. This is also BettaBoy84's thread, so in reality it is YOUR responsibility to find the proof that he is wrong, or any negative effects of oak leaves to make the thread as informative as possible, not his to find the proof that he is right, to which end he has done more than you anyways. If you want to be helpful, defend your point with some evidence, maybe even dish out the money the buy some IAL and show how much better they are that would be nice. And I’m sorry; I’m with oldfishlady and BettaBoy84 on this one, 10 bucks for some leaves? Somebody somewhere is making a lot of money.
Williamg
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks WillIamg..great to see your interest in the thread, i appreciate your support on the topic...

Good to see your interest in the thread as well FloridaBetta...Also good to know that 10.00 gets you more than one leaf..

I will keep you all posted on the new leafs I added to the experiment, they both already surpass the other species in the genre...I like their shape, size and durability. They also seem to be releasing more tannin already in their first day... (I will post pics later)

I will be going north tomorrow and hopefully finding more varieties of oak leaves..could be hard as the more uncommon are hard to find just by wandering lol..

There has also been some great coloration in the water of the Chestnut Oak, but I will wait to post pics, until greater coloration occurs in all 5 jars...

Keep up the interest!

BETTA BOY


Also, I have new fry in my planted tank, check my other thread in breeding...
Indoor Spawning Tank
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re Post of PICS

Hey, I am reposing the Pics of the new leaves as some are unable to see them..I guess I will just add them like I did originally and stop trying to be so creative in integrating them into my message.. lol..hope this works,

Enjoy,

BETTA BOY
 

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I am actually really interested in this thread, I've tried looking for IAL for months now and got told oak leaves are pretty much the same but I'v never had the balls to try it lol plus I didn't even know there were so many types of oak trees, I am ashamed to say I only thought there was one and thats down the street from me haha so make sure you keep us updated bettaboy :)
 
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