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I was back at PetSense today, where I got Corky my DT SBD boy, and looked at their betta. They had around 8 for sale, all of them were sickly looking but there was 2 or 3 that had SBD and near as I could tell they were DTs, like Corky they were advertised as HM.

I'm wondering if whomever they order the betta from is breeding DTs that have a gene or something that predisposes them to SBD. What are the odds of that, or could it be something else?

No I didn't get one of them as much as I hated leaving them. Corky put me over my limit on tanks.
 

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I think body shape and their finnage make them prone to SBD. In some case's it may not be SBD but the fact that their fins weigh them down so much. The problem is still genetics. So yes this could be a problem with all of our betta in the future.
 

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I know that body shape plays a large roll in it, that it compresses the organs and in turn they press on the swim bladder. Corky has the classic DT body shape, but I didn't take notice of just how the ones at the store were shaped. The way they were floating in the cup made seeing that difficult.

Old Dog, the 2 at the store were floating at the top, same as Corky but not quite as bad as he was when I got him, so I'm relatively sure that it's the swim bladder, and not the fins. I wish I had the room for more tanks, I'd get them just to see if what's going on is environmental / diet, or genetics / body shape. I'm 100% certain that Cory's SBD is genetics / body shape. He's doing a lot better but still has difficulty swimming and when he's relaxed at the top of the tank and not propped against something he turns onto his side.
 

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With all the genetic changes we are seeing in our betta I'm wondering if we are breeding in the problems? When we need to be breeding out the bad genetic traits.
 

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With all the genetic changes we are seeing in our betta I'm wondering if we are breeding in the problems? When we need to be breeding out the bad genetic traits.
That's what I'm thinking. I know if I was breeding DTs and noticed that they were developing SBD I'd stop breeding that line, no matter how perfect the tails or colors were. My guess is that whomever is selling PetSense the betta does not care, after all whomever it is is labeling DTs as HM.
 

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I wonder if they even know that they are getting poor quality. They have a live policy and I wonder how many people take up that policy. Or say OH well it was only a fish and didn't cost that much I'll just go get another. Instead of going back to the store and saying Hay my fish died and your live policy says I get another one free. I'll bet they still wouldn't be able to put it together and go back on the supplier. They will never find out and the public is the ones that are getting taken.
 

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It isn't just this breeder. I don't believe it is a "line" thing as all DT are all prone to SBD. Wish indjo would come on. He explained it to me; don't want to appear it's my knowledge. ;-)

DT is a recognized fin type by the IBC and is described as "Doubletail Bettas may have a deeper--top to bottom-- body than singletailed Bettas. The thicker body is acceptable, as long as it contributes to the support of the larger finnage of doubledtails." (Please note, I did not fix typos.)

And:

"DOUBLETAIL BETTAS
Doubletail Bettas are expected to differ in several ways from the singletail:
1. Possess two distinct “tails” or caudal lobes instead of one, with a complete separation to the base of the caudal peduncle.
2. Possess a wider caudal peduncle to support the double lobes.
3. Possess a larger dorsal fin, nearly the size of the anal fin.
4. Their bodies are usually more “chunky” and often a bit shorter.
5. Bends in the caudal peduncle are expressed to a varying degree in almost all doubletail bettas. These are more easily noticed when viewing the fish from above. Easily seen bends should be faulted; if the bend is not excessive when viewed from above, the fish should not be penalized."

I like DT and have had them. But, at least to me, they look more like Goldfish in body. And we know how prone to bloat those are. :-(

Anyhow, TMI. Sorry.
 

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It does explain quit a bit. It does seem like this breed was bread to fail. However not all DT have this problem but are more susceptible to SBD than any other type. So why advertise them to be HM instead of DT or are they saying that there are DTHM breed?? Because if this is what they are selling them under there is no such recognized breed. Any one selling them this way would be (or should be) held for fraud.
To me it is a misrepresentation of a breed that does not exist.
 

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I quit going to my PetSmart long ago because, among other problems, they careless about matching cup and bag labels. They had HMPK in HM cups; HM in HMPK cups. How the heck can that happen? :dunno:
 

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DTs come in all fin types - VT, PK, and HM. IMO, it's only natural for store to label them DTVT, DTPK, DTHM, and so on.

Since DT seems to be a genetic flaw, it's naturally more suseptible to organ failure or other genetic issues. However these harmful flaws can be avoided by selectively breeding more healthy DT. I knew a few breeders that can breed their DT to DT without any issues.

I don't know if SBD can be genetic or is it actually issues with other organs which then affects/causes SBD. i have never had SBD issues with DTs - not that I can remember anyway. I have had bent spine, misaligned scales, uneven/lumpy (?) body, and other genetic issues. . . . Learned the hard way that you have to selectively breed out bad genes.
 
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