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Since quite a few people seem to be having trouble with their choices I'm making this guide.

First, what are your breeding goals? Do you have specific coloration in mind? How about fin and form? No, breeding just to try and see if you can is not a valid goal. :frustrated::frustrated::frustrated:

Breeding to recreate a veil tail line isn't a valid goal either you cheapskates :frustrated::frustrated::frustrated: (unless you have knowledge of how to breed for a pure line.

Are your fish quality? Just because they come from Aquabid doesn't make them quality. In fact I literally laugh when I see a bad fish on AB going for $100. Poor uneducated fools who fall for that. If you are not an IBC member who has read the standards, chances are you won't know what to pick (seen it a million times). Be prepared to shell out some $$$$$ for a nice pair (I'm talking around $100 from Thailand and $50 from the states).

Problems with pet store fish:

1. They come from filthy conditions and can carry disease.

2. Their genetic background is unknown and you may get something you don't want.

3. Just because it says "Halfmoon" does NOT mean it's a good specimen for breeding.

Problems with AB fish:

1. You get what you pay for. $8 plus $10 shipping gets you a fish worth $8. However, a $100 fish can be worth maybe $5. If you pay too low of a price, chances are your fish aren't great. Pay too high, chances are you just got scammed. A good starter pair is between $30 and $50 in the USA. From Thailand it'll be at least $50 when all import fees and shipping is all set and done.

2. What the heck are they called? An aliendragonoverhalmfoonrosetailwithDTgenes is just a fancy name for "Buy it because I say it's cool." They just want money and will coin any name to it to get it.


Ok so now to select the fish. Choose your classification for shows (hey that's another reason you should join the IBC... so you know what to look for *duh!*). Select your favorite show class and hit AB for some searching.

Example. Let's say you want to breed reds (lol good luck with those monsters newbies!). What makes a good red according to IBC standards? What about fins? How should those look? What about body type? Read read read and compare the fish in the standards to the fish you want to buy.

Tips:

Contact a local breeder (if you can't find one... well look harder, trust me they're everywhere). A local breeder can supply you with some nice stock for a decent price. Keep in contact with them since they'll help you with your breeding projects.

Talk to a good breeder who places well in shows like Martinismommy or BasementBettas (aka Karen and Sherolyn).

Listen to people when they tell you not to breed your fish. If you ask "how is my pair" don't get offended when someone comes along and says "This this this this this and that I would avoid breeding them." Nothing is more frustrating than when someone asks for advice then says "Oh well I'll do it anyway."


Hopefully this helped. A little harsh but I'm simply stating facts. Breed good fish. If you can't afford a nice pair, you can't afford to breed.
 

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Thanks for this MrV. Don't want to point fingers but I've seen my fair share of bad fish being bred by irresponsible people, even on this forum. Betta are one of the more labour intensive fish out there to breed, that's for sure.
Also don't get why inexperienced people are so insistent on breeding their favourite pets. It's just putting the pet fish at risk..
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Great Guide.

I think it's good to be harsh - it gets your point across.
 

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Really nice post Mr. V, I know from watching the Aquabid thread and then looking at some examples myself I see people purchasing below par bettas for outlandish prices. Most of the time some of the best bettas are the ones reasonably priced. I still remember the "Mascot" betta from aquastar you recommended to Karen(he was gorgeous) for only 25$ yet I have seen him price horribly balanced fish or deformities for well over 100$.
I know it cost me myself for my first pair a little less than 100$ (This is including all the transhipping and shipping to my house. The pair was about 45$)

Just an example to support your facts :)
-Sincerely
 

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OMG great post, real awesome idea!!!OMG LOL: aliendragonoverhalmfoonrosetailwithDTgenes
I don't think I heard anything so funny in my entire life!!!
 

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Your Betta either meets standards or it doesn't......you either want to show your fish or you don't.
If you want to show your fish-join the IBC, get a mentor and buy the best pair you can afford that are as close to standards as possible...You won't find a perfect fish-they all have faults of varied degrees.

Buy a related pair to continue that breeders line that they have worked really hard on.....


Or......

If you have no interest in showing fish and want the experience of spawning and rearing this species....
Spawn those mystery genetic and see what you get, get your feet wet so to speak....It can be really rewarding and fun to spawn and rear your own Betta from eggs to adults......

IBC oriented hobbyist will try to discourage you and make it sound like an impossible, expensive task and should only be done by them.

I am here to encourage you to spawn your Betta even that pet shop Betta-to grow in this hobby and have fun and one day you may want to join the IBC...but until then don't let others tell you shouldn't or can't.....
 

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I'd say let pets be pets, and let breeding fish breed. It's the same thing as breeding your dogs who are mutts just for the heck of "experiencing" it. There's millions of unwanted mutts everywhere. The same goes for unwanted fish. Either invest your money in pure stock, or simply leave the breeding to those who can afford to do it properly. It's ignorant to do otherwise.
 

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There are hundreds of thousands of bettas dying on pet store shelves around the world. When you breed just because you "feel like it" or you "want to have fun and experience breeding these fish just to try it" You are only bringing more unwanted bettas into the world, and taking homes away from the ones already out there in the pet stores. I don't believe any animal, be it fish, bird, dog cat, whatever, should be bred "just for fun" If you can't enjoy your pets without the need to breed them, then find them new homes, cause you shouldn't have them in the first place.

Breeding should be done with a goal in mind, you should be breeding to try and improve the species in some way, You should get a mentor, quality stock, and learn to do it the right way... plain and simple!
 

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There are hundreds of thousands of bettas dying on pet store shelves around the world. When you breed just because you "feel like it" or you "want to have fun and experience breeding these fish just to try it" You are only bringing more unwanted bettas into the world, and taking homes away from the ones already out there in the pet stores. I don't believe any animal, be it fish, bird, dog cat, whatever, should be bred "just for fun" If you can't enjoy your pets without the need to breed them, then find them new homes, cause you shouldn't have them in the first place.

Breeding should be done with a goal in mind, you should be breeding to try and improve the species in some way, You should get a mentor, quality stock, and learn to do it the right way... plain and simple!

+1
 

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No offense V, but when I saw the tittle, I was expecting tips on what to look for when choosing breeders. What form, what rays, etc - to improve this, to create that, and so on. I got the impression that this was nothing more than to promote IBC.

"If you are not an IBC member who has read the standards, chances are you won't know what to pick (seen it a million times)."
IMO, you don't have to be an IBC member to read their standards. Yes being a member has it's advantages but you could gain knowledge anywhere - like this forum. Further, not everyone wants to show their collection. A lot of people simply wants to enjoy their hobby which IMO should totally be Fun. Then there's financial issues. There are many ways to make the hobby cheaper - eg. instead of getting individual heaters, people could keep their bettas near a room heater or in a very warm room (that's what I did). All you need is creativity - find methods that works for you.

I am not and never will be a member of the IBC - international or local, The main reason being show oriented hobbyists IMO tends to be arrogant and will look down (?), put off (?), or what ever, non show hobbyists who simply loves this species regardless of form. I love them all - both the traditional and modern types - and can't find a reason not to breed them AS LONG AS you can rehome them. I will support anyone wanting to breed any form as long as they have plans for the fry. ..... My hobby is breeding. I don't keep anything I can't breed except dogs. What ever I breed (birds and fish), bettas has always been one of them.

Pet store bettas may be of poor quality (show wise) but they came from breeders just the same. Some are rejects of respected breeders. Filthy and carry disease - yes if they stay on the shelves too long. But if people were to buy them the day they were shipped in, those bettas should be no different than AB bettas. Even you often say buying pet store bettas is Okay as long as you know what to look for. ....

@Moonshadow:
Then there is the question of "what exactly is quality". Is making the fins bigger and wider, changing their natural form better for the species? IMO if it were better for the species, then we would have found them in the wild. Ther is no such thing as better - only what we humans prefer.

Sorry for the long post.
 

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No offense V, but when I saw the tittle, I was expecting tips on what to look for when choosing breeders. What form, what rays, etc - to improve this, to create that, and so on. I got the impression that this was nothing more than to promote IBC.

IMO, you don't have to be an IBC member to read their standards. Yes being a member has it's advantages but you could gain knowledge anywhere - like this forum. Further, not everyone wants to show their collection. A lot of people simply wants to enjoy their hobby which IMO should totally be Fun. Then there's financial issues. There are many ways to make the hobby cheaper - eg. instead of getting individual heaters, people could keep their bettas near a room heater or in a very warm room (that's what I did). All you need is creativity - find methods that works for you.

I am not and never will be a member of the IBC - international or local, The main reason being show oriented hobbyists IMO tends to be arrogant and will look down (?), put off (?), or what ever, non show hobbyists who simply loves this species regardless of form. I love them all - both the traditional and modern types - and can't find a reason not to breed them AS LONG AS you can rehome them. I will support anyone wanting to breed any form as long as they have plans for the fry. ..... My hobby is breeding. I don't keep anything I can't breed except dogs. What ever I breed (birds and fish), bettas has always been one of them.

Pet store bettas may be of poor quality (show wise) but they came from breeders just the same. Some are rejects of respected breeders. Filthy and carry disease - yes if they stay on the shelves too long. But if people were to buy them the day they were shipped in, those bettas should be no different than AB bettas. Even you often say buying pet store bettas is Okay as long as you know what to look for. ....

@Moonshadow:
Then there is the question of "what exactly is quality". Is making the fins bigger and wider, changing their natural form better for the species? IMO if it were better for the species, then we would have found them in the wild. Ther is no such thing as better - only what we humans prefer.

Sorry for the long post.
+1 Kudos
 

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The International Betta Congress is for anyone that loves bettas. True the clubs have shows, but IME no one has "looked down" on me when I've asked for information. Most of the IBC members have been very friendly and share their knowledge freely.
 

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I don't ha e any problem with breeding petstore fish as long as its done RESPONSIBLY. You have to have people who are willing to take petstore fish. Also MrV, may I remind you that Data was a petstore fish.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yes Data was a petstore fish. BUT he had traits I look for. In a rare case like that some pet store fish can show what you want. However the spawn itself threw some traits I was not looking for at all.

Keep in mind he was spawned to a well bred PK female who carries HMPK and HM genes.
 

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While I do agree with you on some parts, I must say it's a bit harsh considering you have bred/are raising a spawn of "petstore fish." You're also saying not to breed veiltails while you have tried/ are trying to breed VTs. IMO as long as you have a valid goal in mind,the supplies and time to breed, then it's okay. Hey, you started with pet store stock as well no?

I'll probably get flamed for this but, just my 2 cents.
 

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IMO IBC members tend to be rather arrogant and snobby. NOT ALL ARE THAT WAYjust most of the ones I've come across. You can get good info from their sites, though.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
This is for new breeders mostly. I'm going to work on VTs because I have knowledge on genetics and more than enough space to do it. And those VTs are going to be shown.

Pet store fish are OK if you know how to pick them. Just picking two random pet store fish to spawn isn't a good way of choosing breeders.

If this thread is going to be an issue I can have it deleted.
 
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