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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to leave the male with the fry after they've hatched so he would do culling instead of me, since I want to have only a few bettas to keep. It seems more natural to me than to remove the male and cull the fry myself.

Will he leave a couple of newborns to reach maturity?

Thanks!
 

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A lot of breeders leave the male in with the fry for a long time, and use the male to cull - the male will know which ones are deformed as well as weak. He can cull better than any breeder :)

So leave him in and let him do his thing..

BUT do watch him and make sure he isn't eating the babies because he doesn't know better (a lot of first time fathers don't know exactly what to do), or he doesn't care and ends up eating the babies willy nilly.. make sure he isn't just chomping on them, but actually only culling what needs to be culled.
 

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Natural egg/fry eaters will devour all of the egg/fry. On the other hand, good daddies will nurture fry until adult. If you leave the first type of male in with fry, you won't have any left. But if you have the second type, you will end up with lots of fry. . . . you need to know your male, which can only be known through experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks, Myates!

And, MattsBettas, you're the same guy who said that VT's shouldn't be bred because of bad finnage. (?!) I didn't get your answer about that on the other thread... Anyway, I do not want to "produce high quality bettas". I want them to mate, let the male do the culling and keep a couple of them. The rest, I will donate to a local pet shop. So, actually, I want to breed them and keep a couple, I don't plan on culling any by myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Natural egg/fry eaters will devour all of the egg/fry. On the other hand, good daddies will nurture fry until adult. If you leave the first type of male in with fry, you won't have any left. But if you have the second type, you will end up with lots of fry. . . . you need to know your male, which can only be known through experience.
Thanks for replying!

I can't imagine him leaving none of the fry to live. You are right, I don't know how he will act but if he is a very bad daddy I will remove him from the fry.

A month ago, my female layed around 100 eggs on her own and made a little bubble nest in which she kept them. She ate them all in two days but maybe she wouldn't if they were fertilized. I think she would be a good mommy since she made a bubble nest on her own.
 

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She most likely won't eat the eggs because 99.9% of the time the male will force the female away from the nest.. sometimes to the point of wanting to kill them. So always remove the female as soon as you see they are done spawning (which could take a coupe hours).

It's scary when you are using an unknown male - my latest batch, the male was brand new to breeding.. eager though as it only took the pair a couple of hours before they started breeding. And he ended up being an EXCELLENT daddy.. his next spawn he will be with the babies until they are moved into the grow out tanks.

But you never know... if they are good, they will cull the weak/deformed. You just have to watch him to see.. see what he does when they are free swimming. And watch the whole time in case he changes his mind on whether or not they start looking yummy to him.

When they are free swimming you should be able to attempt to feed the father.. he may or may not eat at that time, but keep offering (remove any uneaten food right away), as you want him to eat the food and not the fry because he is starving.
 

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Yea I did say that. Their finnage is very undesirable. Why don't you breed some high quality fish? It takes the same amount of time and money.
There is nothing wrong with veiltails, there are even some breeders (myself included) who are making plans to work with them and even possibly get them back into the shows!
 

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Mattsbettas, veiltails are not "undesireable," it's your PREFERENCE that makes them like that, to you. Some people prefer veiltails to other types of fish! They are stunning fish, albeit common thanks to pet stores, and any type, when bred responsibly, can be worth a ton to anyone.

Starting with petstore stock for VTs MIGHT not be the smartest idea, since they have been "milled" for so long that they do seem to have moved away from the ideal, but when it comes down to it, breeding is about each individual's goals. We never would have gotten our CTs, Double Tails, and Halfmoons if someone hadn't strayed from the established ideal to create something new.

As for your statement about "And you really shouldn't be breeding for a couple fish," isn't that what BREEDERS do? They ship the rest off to shows and homes and never hear about them again, except for the few they keep to continue their line. As a new breeder, you probably won't have a line producing exemplary show or breeding stock without a lot of work. By allowing the father to cull the fry (if, indeed, the father can be left with the fry) you are actually starting with the healthiest, strongest fish you could have gotten! The number is smaller, so there is less competition for resources (and less growth-inhibiting pheromone released) and the remaining fish can grow stronger. Yeah, this isn't a "natural scenario," but with survival of the fittest courtesy of dad, you get the best health of the spawn, and from there can pick the best for your desired traits such as finnage and color.
 

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Vizja- Although I have no problem with breeding high quality veiltails and fully support them getting into shows, this user is breeding pet store veiltails and is going to give them to the pet store. We all know that the more on the shelf, the more that die before finding homes. This persons best plan is to give them to the petstore.
 

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It depends on what the breeder's goals are, whether or not VTs would be a good match for them. As far as desirable, it's an individual's opinion.. 99% of people who purchase bettas purchase them for their looks/colors. They will choose a VT over any other fin if they find that particular fish pretty/attractive. I was at Petco yesterday, saw 2 people wanting bettas (the guy was putting them out at the time.. me and him sort of bonded lol).. pretty DTs, HMs, HMDTs, etc.. those two people chose VTs because they thought those particular ones were pretty over the others.

So no, showers and breeders don't tend to buy them, but the majority of the population who do buy bettas for pets don't care the fin type.

Matts.. I respect you in many ways, but guess where a lot of my bettas are going? Even Petco mentioned an interest in my dragonscales. I'm not going to be able to sell a hundred + on AB - and Petco just opened so all the LFS around have closed.. so my options are limited.

Also.. if you don't sell all of your fish, can't find anyone to take them, and you need room.. do you cull? A lot of people do.. so what is the difference between the breeder killing them or the breeder giving them some chance at finding a home?
 

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Vizja- Although I have no problem with breeding high quality veiltails and fully support them getting into shows, this user is breeding pet store veiltails and is going to give them to the pet store. We all know that the more on the shelf, the more that die before finding homes. This persons best plan is to give them to the petstore.
To that point, I do agree. You should make sure you are starting from good stock, and unfortunately petstore VTs are bred the worst with mixed coloring and just plain weird genetics. I just think you take this too far, breeding VTs is not all bad, it depends on the stock you start from. Quite honestly, if I could get any fish from aquabid right now, it would be a VT male I saw the other day.


To the original poster, breeding should be something everyone who is willing to dedicate the time and money should get to enjoy (and better to try with fish then, say, a dog...). However, that dedication needs to go all the way through. You said you were keeping several, how about giving the rest to friends or family? Advertising around your neighborhood, or on craigslist? Make sure the fish get the best home you can give them, and if you cannot commit to that, then yes, perhaps re-thinking breeding would be a wise idea.
 

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Ah.. but many breeders who show start with pet store bettas.. in fact, 2 of my breeders are from pet stores.

As long as the fish is healthy it is NO different than a fish from a breeder. Pet store bettas come from breeders.. it's not like they grow them in trees ;)

A healthy betta, regardless of where it comes from, will have good babies. The only downside to a pet store betta is the uncertainty of what colors you will get. But other than that, there is nothing wrong with breeding a healthy pet store fish.

How many guppies, platies, mollies from pet stores do people breed? What is the difference between them and bettas?
 

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I was actually referring specifically to veils in this case. I agree, so long as you use strong, healthy, well formed fish from stores, and you cull carefully, then breeding them is in my opinion fine. I personally worry more from a health standpoint (genetic defects causing health or structural issues) in the unknown and not necessarily responsible genetics of pet store fish.

I'll be perfectly honest, my red copper pair are from petstores. Is from petstores? Both sound weird, anyway. I just think you need to be very careful what you breed, and be wary of the extremely mixed genetic background of veils, which from what I have seen, is less clean than the other tail types.

And no one tell my veils I said that about them, I adore my two, I would just never use them because I recognize that they are not breeding quality, while my HM is actually worth starting from.
 

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Petstore bettas can be bred as long as they're healthy. The OP may end up with only a dozen or so babies. The first fish I ever got from a breeder came from a spawn that had about 15 or 16 that lived to adulthood.
 

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I own and breed petstore fish but-

1)They are not veiltails.
2)They are what I would consider "gems"
3)They are from pet stores that I trust, not mega companies
4)They are deform free and healthy

There is nothing inherently wrong with pet store fish. Ask Sena. But it seems as though this person just walked into a pet store and grabbed the first two fish they saw.
 

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You do not know how he went about picking his fish. Please do not assume.

You feel your petstore bettas are gems. This member most likely feels his petstore bettas are gems. Regardless, these are both opinions. You can think what you want, but that doesn't necessarily mean your way of thinking is the only way.

How are mass produced petstore HMs or CTs or DTs any better than mass produced petstore VTs background-wise? All betta types are making their way into the large chain petstores now. A healthy, deformity-free HM/CT/DT and a healthy deformity-free VT sitting side by side in a petstore both still have unknown genetic backgrounds. What makes the other tail types less prone to flaws? What makes them less deformed? What makes them more worthy of being bred?
 
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