[stephyortega56567]

My betta, Johnny, started looking sick about a month ago. He had popeye and barely wanted to swim and eat. Johnny’s eye went down but he still has white stuff in his eye, he’s eating a bit more but isn’t as active like he use to be, he is still laying on his side and sleeping in his flower decor a lot. I’m very worried and I’m not sure what to do, this is my first betta so I’m new on knowing how to care for them. I did some research and was lead to here and was reading how Jungle Fungus clear helped a lot of sick bettas and I purchased it right away, the product is in his tank now. Please if anyone has any advice I’m all ears.

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 5.5
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What temperature is your tank? 79
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

Food:
What food brand do you use? North Fin betta bits
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Yes, pellets
Freeze-dried? No, he doesn’t like freeze dried
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? 6 pellets 2 times a day

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Once a week
What percentage of water did you change? 50% one week and 75% the next week
What is the source of your water? Faucet water
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Dip out water
What additives do you use other than conditioner? Safe startAmmonia and chlorine remover
What brand of conditioner? Tetra Aqua safe plus

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water before the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0.50 (I did a water change and it went down to 0.25)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH:6.0
Hardness (GH):
Alkalinity (KH):

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms?
A month ago
How has your Betta’s appearance changed?
He looks the same
How has your Betta’s behavior changed?
He is less active
Is your Betta still eating?
Yes but not much
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how?
For 1 week straight I did Epsom salt bath for his popeye (dipping him in for 8 minutes and putting him in his hospital tank for another 5 minutes), after this he has started to look better and eating a little more. He then started looking sick again and I started dipping him in Methylane blue for 2 days for 10 seconds. I now have jungle fungus clear in his tank and I notice him swimming more and even went under his jellyfish decoration like he use to.
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? No
How long have you owned your Betta? 10 months
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? Fin rot

 

[stephyortega56567]

This was yesterday before the jungle fizz

 

[Momofbetta]

I’m not sure about meds (I’m in Canada and we don’t have meds here).
You mentioned that you just dip out water though - this is likely what is causing the ammonia readings. A 5 gallon tank should easily maintain stable parameters with 0 ammonia/nitrite with a 50% water change weekly. A gravel vac will remove leftover poop/food from the tank and stabilize your water a bit better.

if you have large stones (I think I see glass gems), you may have to do a more extensive cleaning as they don’t gravel vac very well

 

[stephyortega56567]

I’m not sure about meds (I’m in Canada and we don’t have meds here).
You mentioned that you just dip out water though - this is likely what is causing the ammonia readings. A 5 gallon tank should easily maintain stable parameters with 0 ammonia/nitrite with a 50% water change weekly. A gravel vac will remove leftover poop/food from the tank and stabilize your water a bit better.

if you have large stones (I think I see glass gems), you may have to do a more extensive cleaning as they don’t gravel vac very well

I recently purchased gravel since I don’t like the gems and river rocks and it’s coming on the 8th but I use Ammonia and chlorine remover. My water here is pretty bad and I don’t know what else to make it better

 

[Momofbetta]

Water changes are the only way to remove ammonia - some water conditioners claim to bind ammonia but the science is sketchy at best.

If you have never cleaned in the rocks/gems, this is your first step.

 

[stephyortega56567]

Water changes are the only way to remove ammonia - some water conditioners claim to bind ammonia but the science is sketchy at best.

If you have never cleaned in the rocks/gems, this is your first step.

I clean them every 2 weeks, am I suppose to every week?

 

[TropicalFlow3]

Generally, in a 5 gal, I would do water changes once a week, but if possible since your boy is sick I would suggest twice a week.

 

[TropicalFlow3]

Generally, in a 5 gal, I would do water changes once a week, but if possible since your boy is sick I would suggest twice a week.

I’m for once, quite stumped and unsure about this. The S swerve spine makes me think he could be thin… could we get an above pic of him?

 

[stephyortega56567]

I’m for once, quite stumped and unsure about this. The S swerve spine makes me think he could be thin… could we get an above pic of him?

Yea I’ll take more pictures, it seems like he got worse

 

[RussellTheShihTzu]

By "worse," what do you see? And is his spine curved or is that just the angle of the shot?

Ammonia is either NH3 (toxic) or NH4 (Ammonium/non-toxic). The API test measures both so we don't know if we're seeing NH3 or NH4. A SeaChem Alert will only read NH3; so if it don't register but API does, you're seeing NH4/Ammonium. You would still do a water change but you know your boy isn't in toxic conditions.

If his pop-eye was unilateral it was most likely an injury; if it was bi-lateral it was most likely an infection. Something to keep in mind if, heaven forbid!, it happens again.

Betta are very fragile and sometimes several types of treatments in a row will take a toll. When switching treating, there should be 6-10 days between old and new. This gives their bodies a bit of much needed rest.

I would suggest that when the Jungle Cure has run its course you add Indian Almond Leaves or plain Rooibos Tea for their antibacterial and antifungal properties; they are also calming. You can either float or brew a "tea" of either. Boil a leaf or two or a couple of teabags for 2-3 minutes. Remove from heat and let steep overnight so the liquid is black.

Condition and add to his tank until it is the color of the water in the photo above.

Also, if he's not eating as well, soak his pellets in a bit of garlic juice and see if that helps.

Do you have live plants? If not, I'd suggest you wait to add the new substrate. With a bare bottom you can tell how much food he's actually eating (mine like to hunt in the substrate for food) and how his feces looks. Those are reasons hospital tanks are best without substrate.

We'll all do our best to help Johnny. They are just so darned fragile and symptoms for so many thing are the same it can be difficult to know what to do.

 

[stephyortega56567]

These are more pictures of Johnny

 

[stephyortega56567]

These are more pictures of Johnny

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More pics just now

 

[stephyortega56567]

By "worse," what do you see? And is his spine curved or is that just the angle of the shot?

Ammonia is either NH3 (toxic) or NH4 (Ammonium/non-toxic). The API test measures both so we don't know if we're seeing NH3 or NH4. A SeaChem Alert will only read NH3; so if it don't register but API does, you're seeing NH4/Ammonium. You would still do a water change but you know your boy isn't in toxic conditions.

If his pop-eye was unilateral it was most likely an injury; if it was bi-lateral it was most likely an infection. Something to keep in mind if, heaven forbid!, it happens again.

Betta are very fragile and sometimes several types of treatments in a row will take a toll. When switching treating, there should be 6-10 days between old and new. This gives their bodies a bit of much needed rest.

I would suggest that when the Jungle Cure has run its course you add Indian Almond Leaves or plain Rooibos Tea for their antibacterial and antifungal properties; they are also calming. You can either float or brew a "tea" of either. Boil a leaf or two or a couple of teabags for 2-3 minutes. Remove from heat and let steep overnight so the liquid is black.
View attachment 1051033
Condition and add to his tank until it is the color of the water in the photo above.

Also, if he's not eating as well, soak his pellets in a bit of garlic juice and see if that helps.

Do you have live plants? If not, I'd suggest you wait to add the new substrate. With a bare bottom you can tell how much food he's actually eating (mine like to hunt in the substrate for food) and how his feces looks. Those are reasons hospital tanks are best without substrate.

We'll all do our best to help Johnny. They are just so darned fragile and symptoms for so many thing are the same it can be difficult to know what to do.

Yesterday Johnny ate 4 pellets and spat one out, today he tried eating one but spat it out as well. We had to clean his tank today and once we put him back he started breathing really heavily, more than when he was in his regular water. I’m not sure why he started breathing heavily when I tested his water, these are the results I got
High range ph: 7.4
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Ammonia: 0
We put ammonia remover, stress coat, safe start, aquarium salt, and the jungle fizz. I’m not sure if all of this was too much for him but someone told me that it’s okay. His spine does seem to curve when he lays sometimes but when he swims up for water it looks straight. I had live plants before but they turned black and once I had it in Johnny got popeye, I read that some plants can cause that. Researching now I found out the plants died because of ammonia, couldn’t be buried, and needs food. I don’t have a Petco or Petsmart near me to get another plant, the closest one is 3 hours away and the ones I got before had black spots and those were the only good looking ones out of all of them. Thank you so much for reminding me about the almond leaves, I never knew that I had to leave them overnight I thought once it cools down I can add it right in. Also with the garlic juice, how long am I suppose to leave the pellets in for? Should I try feeding him in a hospital tank? Or will he stress too much and not want to eat?

 

[stephyortega56567]

By "worse," what do you see? And is his spine curved or is that just the angle of the shot?

Ammonia is either NH3 (toxic) or NH4 (Ammonium/non-toxic). The API test measures both so we don't know if we're seeing NH3 or NH4. A SeaChem Alert will only read NH3; so if it don't register but API does, you're seeing NH4/Ammonium. You would still do a water change but you know your boy isn't in toxic conditions.

If his pop-eye was unilateral it was most likely an injury; if it was bi-lateral it was most likely an infection. Something to keep in mind if, heaven forbid!, it happens again.

Betta are very fragile and sometimes several types of treatments in a row will take a toll. When switching treating, there should be 6-10 days between old and new. This gives their bodies a bit of much needed rest.

I would suggest that when the Jungle Cure has run its course you add Indian Almond Leaves or plain Rooibos Tea for their antibacterial and antifungal properties; they are also calming. You can either float or brew a "tea" of either. Boil a leaf or two or a couple of teabags for 2-3 minutes. Remove from heat and let steep overnight so the liquid is black.
View attachment 1051033
Condition and add to his tank until it is the color of the water in the photo above.

Also, if he's not eating as well, soak his pellets in a bit of garlic juice and see if that helps.

Do you have live plants? If not, I'd suggest you wait to add the new substrate. With a bare bottom you can tell how much food he's actually eating (mine like to hunt in the substrate for food) and how his feces looks. Those are reasons hospital tanks are best without substrate.

We'll all do our best to help Johnny. They are just so darned fragile and symptoms for so many thing are the same it can be difficult to know what to do.

Thank you so much and everyone for trying to help me! I’m glad I found this place with such amazing and nice people that can help me learn more and save my betta

 

[stephyortega56567]

I also want to add more hiding spots for Johnny. I know a betta log is good for him but which kind is better since I know there’s two different kinds. Also what else should I add? I wanted to add driftwood but I’m not sure if it’ll fit a 5.5 gallon. I will definitely buy the stuff soon, but right now I want to focus more on his health and see if I need to buy any other medication. I also just got Johnny gravel and he seems to enjoy it more than the river rocks and gems since he’s laying on the gravel more than his flower and skull.

 

[RussellTheShihTzu]

How is Johnny doing today?

You can add the IAL immediately; then brew a second batch of the stronger extract for later use. I apologize for not making myself clear about that. You can try soaking the food for just a few seconds; long enough to give them the smell but not so long as to leach out the nutrients. If you have a pair of blunt tweezers that a good way to feed.

The StressCoat removes Ammonia so you can hold off the Ammonia remover. Also the SafeStart and the aquarium salt. I hate doing incomplete treatments; you can do the full round of the Jungle product. However, if you feel it's not doing him any more good you can stop and just use the IAL.

The easiest and "hide" is a piece of slate propped against the glass. Takes up little space and gives them a natural cover.

Oh, and don't forget to check parameters before you do a water change.

 

[stephyortega56567]

How is Johnny doing today?

You can add the IAL immediately; then brew a second batch of the stronger extract for later use. I apologize for not making myself clear about that. You can try soaking the food for just a few seconds; long enough to give them the smell but not so long as to leach out the nutrients. If you have a pair of blunt tweezers that a good way to feed.

The StressCoat removes Ammonia so you can hold off the Ammonia remover. Also the SafeStart and the aquarium salt. I hate doing incomplete treatments; you can do the full round of the Jungle product. However, if you feel it's not doing him any more good you can stop and just use the IAL.

The easiest and "hide" is a piece of slate propped against the glass. Takes up little space and gives them a natural cover.

Oh, and don't forget to check parameters before you do a water change.

Johnny still isn’t doing that good, but he’s definitely breathing better which I’m very happy about since yesterday I was freaking out because of how heavily he was breathing. He still is laying on his side, barely wanting to swim. The only times I see him swimming is to reach the surface for air and to just move to a different resting spot. Last night he ate a few pellets with the garlic juice which I’m very happy about, but I just ran out of garlic and I have to get some from the store tomorrow. With the garlic juice I’m not 100% sure I did it right. I squeezed the garlic with a lemon squeezer (since I don’t have a garlic press but I will buy one in the store tomorrow) and no juice came out so I mashed the garlic and left it to soak in the little bit of water that I scooped up from his tank, I then strained it to get the pieces out and soaked his food in it. Johnny ate 4 pellets but nothing this morning since it didn’t have the garlic juice, I’ll try again in an hour. Now I will boil his IAL and put it in his tank after it cools, with the second batch of the IAL when should I add it in? When it’s the next water change? Also since he’s sick am I suppose to do a 25% water change twice this week? If so, on the second week how much water change should I do?

 

[RussellTheShihTzu]

They have minced garlic in, I think, the refrigerated section. You can use the juice from that.

You only need to add more IAL when you do water changes. You can also add the leaf you've boiled; or save it for when you make the extract. I have some IAL that will turn the water black in just an hour or two.

The second batch, the black extract, is much stronger so you won't need as much to get the same tint. I hope this makes sense. Sometimes it's easy to forget not everyone has the same background information; had a math professor like that once. Knew his subject and sometimes skipped the important parts.

I hope Johnny makes it for you. With critters this small it's often touch-and-go. Ask as many questions as you have; we're all here to help.

 

[stephyortega56567]

UPDATE: Johnny ate 6 pellets!!! I’m very happy and I think it’s because of the garlic juice from yesterday! He even swam up to get one! He wanted more but I didn’t want to over feed him and I will feed him again tonight! He still is laying on his side and bending

 

[stephyortega56567]

They have minced garlic in, I think, the refrigerated section. You can use the juice from that.

You only need to add more IAL when you do water changes. You can also add the leaf you've boiled; or save it for when you make the extract. I have some IAL that will turn the water black in just an hour or two.

The second batch, the black extract, is much stronger so you won't need as much to get the same tint. I hope this makes sense. Sometimes it's easy to forget not everyone has the same background information; had a math professor like that once. Knew his subject and sometimes skipped the important parts.

I hope Johnny makes it for you. With critters this small it's often touch-and-go. Ask as many questions as you have; we're all here to help.

I have minced garlic and it has the juice but the ingredients are garlic, water, and citrus acid. I’m just worried and don’t want to make him more sick from the citrus acid since I believe it’s bad for him. Also thank you so much on the advice on the IAL, I just added it to his tank just now. I hope Johnny can recover too, do you know what his sickness might be? I wish they weren’t so sensitive, they are such beautiful creatures.