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Discussion Starter #1
It's so interesting to me how different types of animals have different capacities for friendliness and/or affection and love. I originally thought mammals were the most affectionate, then birds, then reptiles, then amphibians, then fish. But through my experience....I've been wrong.....

For example, my hamster really couldn't care less whether I'm alive or dead, but my bird thrives on attention....and idk if my betta is capable of love or affection, but he is certainly capable of being friendly with me (at least from my perspective) because he comes right up to the front of the tank when I walk up to it to look at him

Now, I've had frogs, and they don't seem interested in people AT ALL. way less than my fish and a bit less than my hamster.

I've never owned my own reptile but it seems like they are not capable of love...I think some just like being held because we are warm....but i don't know for sure...

What are your thoughts on this subject?
 

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Animals raised in captivity are capable of many unnatural behaviors not associated with their species. I don't think I'm wrong to say that dogs make better people than some people!! lol

Cats, I don't know. My cat is the spawn of Satan so I don't believe he thinks much of us half the time.

I think scientifically, some reps and fish are incapable of feeling empathy (which apparantly is the most important emotion for human companionship and why dogs are revered so much)

Not sure about birds, but some parrots have the mentality of a three year old human and that's enough proof for me.

Elephants feel love. Intense love and compassion for their family members.

Dolphins, the only wild animal that well- "mates" for pleasure are intelligent enough to feel love and stuff for each other.

But I'm no biologist. I just love the relationship we have with the pets we keep and love. I have to, to keep a house over this cats head and feed him daily -_- He doesn't care.
 

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Oh come on, he's never rubbed up against your leg or just mewed at you for no reason? Mine do that all the time. And I know for a fact cats can feel fear, so I don't see why they can't feel pleasure. Miko kitten is scared of storms.. so she comes to sit on my chest or hides in my shirt when it's storming. For comfort, I think, or she would go to the basement like she used to.

Fish... I don't think they can love. love is a human concept. But I do think they can recognize that people are the source of good things, food, clean water, toys and activity. They do live pretty boring lives without us. So even if they can't "love" us, they do appreciate us, in their own way. At least some fish, anyways.. Zebra Danios... are morons. bloody morons.
 

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i have snakes, the best one will be boa's and ball pythons :3 we have a female ball python named melissa, and SHE LOVESS ATTENTION, no i mean when someone comes into the room she is in, she gets all excited and starts rubbing her head on the glass and stuff X3 she is sooo adorable!! i snuggle with her all the time, her favorite thing is being around my brothers guitars and necks, since she like the vibration :D she is like a puppy dog, and loves other snakes as well. she even was helping a snake that had mite :3 she would soak in the water and let the water drip on the other snake, though sadly that snake passed away.
she is very lovely, and we call her "the great melissa" XD she doesn't even mess with fish. my brother had a CT betta, and she would just drink the water totally ignoring the betta :\ (our snakes like fish water, i really don't know why) then she does this creepy thing where she'll stare at you for like 20 minutes even though we pet her head, she just doesn't move and stand completely still staring at you am like "uhh, she's scaring me" XP
but snakes do love people as long you give them lots of love and attention, especially if you get them young.
here's a pic of melissa:

 

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It's important to consider that we're looking at this through a captive animal point of view. There is no need to compete, no worries over food, or getting eaten. Animals aren't starving, or terrified. That's when emotions come in play with them. Of course, many a time animals will not show any sort of "magical bond" with people, simply because they are animals, and they don't have to love everyone.

I find stories like "wild lion adopts gazelle fawn" or "wild raven adopts stray kitten" the most interesting. The kitten one, there was a kitten, and basically a raven adopted him. The bird let the kitten follow it, the bird brought food for the kitten, and so on. They still live together happily. The lion one was more a lioness had lost her cubs and ended up catching a baby gazelle and cuddling it non stop. Did not end well, of course the gazelle died of starvation. I think the lioness did this about 3 times, she didn't eat the baby after it had died. A sign of mourning for her own lost cubs perhaps?

Another one, probably one of the most interesting I've read, were stories in my book on African leopards. One involved a young male they were following. He had made one of his first kills: a baboon. The researchers realized that there was a baby baboon still clinging to it's dead mother, only a few hours old at most. The leopard reacted quite oddly... he picked up the baby and cuddled it. When some hyena came by, the leopard took the baby up into a tree. The baby would cling to the leopard, if it ever strayed off the leopard would pick it up again. They slept together through the night, though eventually the baboon succumbed to hypothermia. After that, the leopard left the dead baby alone, and finished eating his kill.
Goes to show, animals do show emotion in the wild. Of course usually there isn't time for feelings in the wild. Though most often for their own kind, we are witness to some strange things sometimes.

Reptiles, I don't know- they're starting to convince me. I still feel the snake acts purely on instinct. Despite some touching videos, I still feel that a large enough snake would consider you a meal, as would a large enough betta. xD

It's an interesting question, especially for believers of evolution. That is our main question in anthropology- where did we come from? What makes us human? Well, if we all evolved from the same roots, then animals must share many of our traits. They've proven this on many an occasion. I don't think there is a definitive line- some cats don't like people, some cats love people. Some people are social, others are on the fringes of what we want to call "human." Know that no human can ever fathom the thoughts, feelings and motivations of another species, for we can't even understand each other at the best of times.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It's important to consider that we're looking at this through a captive animal point of view. There is no need to compete, no worries over food, or getting eaten. Animals aren't starving, or terrified. That's when emotions come in play with them. Of course, many a time animals will not show any sort of "magical bond" with people, simply because they are animals, and they don't have to love everyone.

I find stories like "wild lion adopts gazelle fawn" or "wild raven adopts stray kitten" the most interesting. The kitten one, there was a kitten, and basically a raven adopted him. The bird let the kitten follow it, the bird brought food for the kitten, and so on. They still live together happily. The lion one was more a lioness had lost her cubs and ended up catching a baby gazelle and cuddling it non stop. Did not end well, of course the gazelle died of starvation. I think the lioness did this about 3 times, she didn't eat the baby after it had died. A sign of mourning for her own lost cubs perhaps?

Another one, probably one of the most interesting I've read, were stories in my book on African leopards. One involved a young male they were following. He had made one of his first kills: a baboon. The researchers realized that there was a baby baboon still clinging to it's dead mother, only a few hours old at most. The leopard reacted quite oddly... he picked up the baby and cuddled it. When some hyena came by, the leopard took the baby up into a tree. The baby would cling to the leopard, if it ever strayed off the leopard would pick it up again. They slept together through the night, though eventually the baboon succumbed to hypothermia. After that, the leopard left the dead baby alone, and finished eating his kill.
Goes to show, animals do show emotion in the wild. Of course usually there isn't time for feelings in the wild. Though most often for their own kind, we are witness to some strange things sometimes.

Reptiles, I don't know- they're starting to convince me. I still feel the snake acts purely on instinct. Despite some touching videos, I still feel that a large enough snake would consider you a meal, as would a large enough betta. xD

It's an interesting question, especially for believers of evolution. That is our main question in anthropology- where did we come from? What makes us human? Well, if we all evolved from the same roots, then animals must share many of our traits. They've proven this on many an occasion. I don't think there is a definitive line- some cats don't like people, some cats love people. Some people are social, others are on the fringes of what we want to call "human." Know that no human can ever fathom the thoughts, feelings and motivations of another species, for we can't even understand each other at the best of times.
wow...the story about the leopard gave me goosebumps XD.

But I feel my betta may not "love" me, but he definitely likes me :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
i have snakes, the best one will be boa's and ball pythons :3 we have a female ball python named melissa, and SHE LOVESS ATTENTION, no i mean when someone comes into the room she is in, she gets all excited and starts rubbing her head on the glass and stuff X3 she is sooo adorable!! i snuggle with her all the time, her favorite thing is being around my brothers guitars and necks, since she like the vibration :D she is like a puppy dog, and loves other snakes as well. she even was helping a snake that had mite :3 she would soak in the water and let the water drip on the other snake, though sadly that snake passed away.
she is very lovely, and we call her "the great melissa" XD she doesn't even mess with fish. my brother had a CT betta, and she would just drink the water totally ignoring the betta :\ (our snakes like fish water, i really don't know why) then she does this creepy thing where she'll stare at you for like 20 minutes even though we pet her head, she just doesn't move and stand completely still staring at you am like "uhh, she's scaring me" XP
but snakes do love people as long you give them lots of love and attention, especially if you get them young.
here's a pic of melissa:

Thats really cool that she's so lovey :)
 

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When I replied above, I was mad at Oliver for waking me up and being annoying. He is a sweet cat when he's not bothering me by picking things off my desk, biting my exposed hands and feet while I sleep, and pawing at my bunny for negative attention.

Cats can certainly feel pleasure, they knead blankets and tummies like they did when nursing. It makes them feel good. However, my cat is neutered and has taken to a more.. um. higher sense of pleasure. . He masterbates with blankets o_O (if that's inappropriate to say, delete it mods!) But it's true. I was concerned at first but I was told it's normal with some cats... I still gon' hate on my devilish cat. Don't get me wrong!!!

I seen the video of the leopard and the monkey! It's on youtube. I thought it was female though. Either way, it was incredible to see it protect the baby from the hyena.

I had no idea snakes were like that!! The very first pet expo here someone had a snake and I pet its head and the owner told me not to do that.....
 

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i have a cat that LOVES me o-0 she won't let me sleep or have anytime to my own sometimes
and thanks you, she is my brothers prized possession or something :lol:
 

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lol My mom's cat controls my mom!! She yells at her when too many people at once visit her, and when she is out too long. And at night when she's ready for bed she'll yell at my mom to go to bed and mom has to face her or she'll wake mom up or move to the side where her face is. And that's weird bc my mom snores like a hippo!! I could never sleep that close to her!! lol
 

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Cute. hehe. My dogs call me to bed when it's late too. They whine until I go to my room.
 

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I can say my rats definitely feel affection for me. When they are scared, they run to me. If someone else is holding them and I walk by, they try to get to me. When I pick up Hyde, he boggles at me and snuggles into me; Darcy licks me. D'Artagnan will sit on my chest until I stroke his head. Jekyll will try and climb in my lap.

When Hyde had an operation to have a tumour on his leg removed, he was extremely stressed and nervous. He was only calm when a human was around. I slept with him in my arms on the sofa the first two nights, and he was much happier. He snuggled into me, licked my wrists, tried to climb into my hair or my shirt. All he wanted was snuggles. <3
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I can say my rats definitely feel affection for me. When they are scared, they run to me. If someone else is holding them and I walk by, they try to get to me. When I pick up Hyde, he boggles at me and snuggles into me; Darcy licks me. D'Artagnan will sit on my chest until I stroke his head. Jekyll will try and climb in my lap.

When Hyde had an operation to have a tumour on his leg removed, he was extremely stressed and nervous. He was only calm when a human was around. I slept with him in my arms on the sofa the first two nights, and he was much happier. He snuggled into me, licked my wrists, tried to climb into my hair or my shirt. All he wanted was snuggles. <3
That is so ADORABLE XD! I love rats. They are love buckets :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
uhhh .... you don't want to know what we do about rodents :lol: hehe, just say circle of life
What, do you have a snake? lol

Rodents were put on earth to be killed. The average life span of a mouse in the wild is 3 months.

That's why rats are so great. They are so great because they are thankful to their pet parents for loving them and not killing them :)
 

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I don't think animals look at life that way, as far as we know they aren't self aware.

Everything is put on earth to die, also. No matter how long an animal lives, they are all humbled by the same end.
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Ican say without doubt that my rats are in love with me. They all run up to me when ever I am near them adn if other people are playign with them they will run back to me rather than stay with the strangers. THey are like little pocket dogs, becasue they have nearly the same mindset as dogs, extremely loyal and loving.
I msut say the photo of the snake eating the mouse/rat was rather upsettign to me, but I recognize this si a fish forum so I cant complain about the rats violence since it has ntohignt do with it.

As for the whole " rodents were put ont he earth to die" well I dont agree with that oen bit but to each its own. I will sut cuddle my rats haha.

I also have had cats my whoel life and honestly soem love you soem will tryt o murder you int heir sleep haha but they allappreciate what you do for them regardless. We had one cat, mean as hell, bites scratch anything and everyone specially strangers but would cuddle with us occasionally and hardly hurt us unless we pushed him to far. Strangers stood no chance however haha
 
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