[ambrosiaandmore]

So Aether has been pretty bloated this past week, I’ve noticed stringy brown poop, and his fins are starting to rip. He’s still been acting normally (swimming around his tank when I walk up to it, eating all his food, and sleeping in his favorite spots). We did have an ammonia spike last week (1ppm) but I have gotton it back to 0. I noticed that he was struggling to swim during this time, his fins were going really fast, and he kept missing his food. He’s normal now, but just bloated with stringy poop and ripped fins. Do you guys think this is something serious, or just the effects of the high ammonia, or just common bloating? And if it’s common bloat, should I fast him for a few days?

*Aether is a Koi betta with the marble gene, so he has some weird looking red and white spots on him that could be mistaken for other diseases. He has no ich and no ammonia burn. He has a lump on his left side that he was born with. It’s the dark red by his gills

Tank size: 5 gallon
Filter: yes
Heater: yes
Temperature: 81°
Aeration: None
Tank mates: None
Food: Omega One Betta Buffet (pellets), mysis shrimp (freeze dried), blood worms (freeze dried) and daphnia (freeze dried). He is fed 3-4 pellets 2x a day, with the occasional other food added
Water changes: 25% every week, and I use a siphon to remove the water and vaccum the sand/decorations
Water source: Tap
Additives: API stress coat and Imagitarium ammonia remover
Conditioner brand: Tetra AquaSafe plus
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0
pH: 7.6 (that’s the levels from our tap, and I’ve tried pH level lowerers but it made Aether act weird)
Hardness: I don’t know
Alkalinity: I don’t know
When I noticed symptoms: probably January 30th
Behavior changes: None
Eating habits: they haven’t changed
Am I treating: I tried an Epsom salt bath, but I don’t know if I should continue if it’s not going to help
Damage when bought: he has that lump on his right side that I mentioned earlier
How long I’ve owned him: 5 months and 18 days (I got him august 18, 2022)

In the pictures you can see that his stomach is kind of a peachy color, and is distended

 

[Rose of sharon]

Hi,

Aether is a beautiful boy!!! He's very unusual, and is just stunningl!!!

I would recommend that you watch him closely for a few days. You can fast him for a couple of days and see if that helps. Also, if you could get a pic of him from above, that would be good for us to look at, too. Brown poop sounds normal. Stringy poop can be normal too, depending on a few things. Sometimes it is based on how much they eat, what they eat, how often, etc., so not something to be alarmed about.

When you start feeding him again, I would recommend that you soak his pellets in water before feeding him to get them soft (if you aren't already doing so). I would avoid feeding him freeze dried blood worms. They are not very high in nutrition, can cause bloat, and are like betta candy. I would soak the freeze dried mysis shrimp, if that is possible, too (sorry I have never used those before so I don't know what they look like).

If you do some small, frequent water changes, it should help with his fin problem. Adding Indian almond leaves or alder cones or brewing some rooibos tea in treated tank water for the tannins will help reduce stress. The tannins tint the water brown, and some people don't like that, but bettas love the stuff and it will help keep him healthy.

Hope this helps!

 

[ambrosiaandmore]

Hi,

Aether is a beautiful boy!!! He's very unusual, and is just stunningl!!!

I would recommend that you watch him closely for a few days. You can fast him for a couple of days and see if that helps. Also, if you could get a pic of him from above, that would be good for us to look at, too. Brown poop sounds normal. Stringy poop can be normal too, depending on a few things. Sometimes it is based on how much they eat, what they eat, how often, etc., so not something to be alarmed about.

When you start feeding him again, I would recommend that you soak his pellets in water before feeding him to get them soft (if you aren't already doing so). I would avoid feeding him freeze dried blood worms. They are not very high in nutrition, can cause bloat, and are like betta candy. I would soak the freeze dried mysis shrimp, if that is possible, too (sorry I have never used those before so I don't know what they look like).

If you do some small, frequent water changes, it should help with his fin problem. Adding Indian almond leaves or alder cones or brewing some rooibos tea in treated tank water for the tannins will help reduce stress. The tannins tint the water brown, and some people don't like that, but bettas love the stuff and it will help keep him healthy.

Hope this helps!

Thank you so much!!!! This was really helpful, and honestly calmed my anxiety a lot. I’ve tried adding the almond leaves to his tank before, but they caused a massive ammonia spike (2ppm) so I’ve avoided anything like that since. I haven’t heard of the rooibos tea before, so I’ll look into that.
I’ll try fasting him for a few days, and then start feeding again with soaked pellets

 

[ambrosiaandmore]

Hi,

Aether is a beautiful boy!!! He's very unusual, and is just stunningl!!!

I would recommend that you watch him closely for a few days. You can fast him for a couple of days and see if that helps. Also, if you could get a pic of him from above, that would be good for us to look at, too. Brown poop sounds normal. Stringy poop can be normal too, depending on a few things. Sometimes it is based on how much they eat, what they eat, how often, etc., so not something to be alarmed about.

When you start feeding him again, I would recommend that you soak his pellets in water before feeding him to get them soft (if you aren't already doing so). I would avoid feeding him freeze dried blood worms. They are not very high in nutrition, can cause bloat, and are like betta candy. I would soak the freeze dried mysis shrimp, if that is possible, too (sorry I have never used those before so I don't know what they look like).

If you do some small, frequent water changes, it should help with his fin problem. Adding Indian almond leaves or alder cones or brewing some rooibos tea in treated tank water for the tannins will help reduce stress. The tannins tint the water brown, and some people don't like that, but bettas love the stuff and it will help keep him healthy.

Hope this helps!

Here are some photos of him from above, also it looks like his scales are slightly sticking out. Could that be a sign of early dropsy?

 

[ambrosiaandmore]

This is him this morning. It looks like he’s pineconing more, which is really scaring me. I haven’t fed him for 2 days. He is still very active, and really wants food. I just don’t know what to do anymore
(The pictures are kind of blurry)
I also just tested his water, and his ammonia is 1ppm. I just did a water change, and I’ll continue until it’s lowered. Should I also medicate with kanaplex for the pineconing?
I really need help

 

[EDRVT]

Hello. I do agree that I see what is likely some mild pineconing. It is hard to say for sure if it is early dropsy but, in my experience, dropsy has to be treated early and aggressively in order to have any chance at all of recovery. If you haven't started a hospital tank, I would do so. I would add salt to it and start a Kanaplex treatment if he were mine. There is some controversy as to whether treatment with AQ salt of epsom salt is better for dropsy. Personally I have had zero success with epsom salt but possible success with AQ (aquarium) salt. Another member, @tropicalflow, I believe has some wisdom for using AQ salt. Regardless, I would start treatment while he still appears strong enough to tolerate it. I also agree with Rose concerning the addition of some tannins to the hospital tank.
Thinking good thoughts for you and your beautiful boy!

 

[ambrosiaandmore]

Hello. I do agree that I see what is likely some mild pineconing. It is hard to say for sure if it is early dropsy but, in my experience, dropsy has to be treated early and aggressively in order to have any chance at all of recovery. If you haven't started a hospital tank, I would do so. I would add salt to it and start a Kanaplex treatment if he were mine. There is some controversy as to whether treatment with AQ salt of epsom salt is better for dropsy. Personally I have had zero success with epsom salt but possible success with AQ (aquarium) salt. Another member, @tropicalflow, I believe has some wisdom for using AQ salt. Regardless, I would start treatment while he still appears strong enough to tolerate it. I also agree with Rose concerning the addition of some tannins to the hospital tank.
Thinking good thoughts for you and your beautiful boy!

I don’t have a hospital tank, but would it be okay to add the kanaplex to his reg tank? I don’t know how that would work with water changes. I also regularly use a filter with activated carbon, but I know that that’s how you would filter out the remaining kanaplex at the end of the treatment. Should I turn my filter off?

 

[EDRVT]

I use it in my regular tank. I remove the carbon filtration and keep it in a container of tank water to preserve the bacteria. You dose it every other day for three doses and then dona 25% water change the day after the third dose and replace your carbon. Be cautious with AQ salt if you have live plants. I also leave the filter running to keep the water moving.

 

[ambrosiaandmore]

I use it in my regular tank. I remove the carbon filtration and keep it in a container of tank water to preserve the bacteria. You dose it every other day for three doses and then dona 25% water change the day after the third dose and replace your carbon. Be cautious with AQ salt if you have live plants. I also leave the filter running to keep the water moving.

Thank you so much

 

[EDRVT]

You are so welcome! I hope he gets better for you! Please keep us updated and let us know if you need anything. I also wanted to mention that if he has a good appetite, Kanaplex can be given with food.

 

[RussellTheShihTzu]

Do you feed freeze dried as a regular meal substitute or the occasional treat?

 

[ambrosiaandmore]

Do you feed freeze dried as a regular meal substitute or the occasional treat?

I give them to him as treats along with his regular meals. I give him fewer pellets with the treat

 

[RussellTheShihTzu]

I asked because some manufacturers recommend freeze dried as the occasional treat because they aren't that nutritionally sound. I also ask because he looks awfully thin in that last group of photos; especially the area close to his caudal. There shouldn't be any indentation between the skull and body; something he has. If he were mine, I would ditch the freeze dried and stick to the Omega One and up his intake to 3-4 at least 3 x per day. BTW, how soon after he ate did you take the first photos? Is he always like those photos? Or just after eating? If so, ddoes he "deflate" after an hour or two?

Here is a comparison. He should look like this Koi: Smooth line from nose to peduncle (base of caudal fin).

I know it happens but can't find out why but he looks to be pineconing but he's far from bloated? I'm wondering if he doesn't have some sort of parasite? Is his poop normal? Not stringy; not white or a color other than his food?

Can you get a clear photo from above and point out the pineconing?

 

[ambrosiaandmore]

I asked because some manufacturers recommend freeze dried as the occasional treat because they aren't that nutritionally sound. I also ask because he looks awfully thin in that last group of photos; especially the area close to his caudal. There shouldn't be any indentation between the skull and body; something he has. If he were mine, I would ditch the freeze dried and stick to the Omega One and up his intake to 3-4 at least 3 x per day. BTW, how soon after he ate did you take the first photos? Is he always like those photos? Or just after eating? If so, ddoes he "deflate" after an hour or two?
View attachment 1050903 View attachment 1050904
Here is a comparison. He should look like this Koi: Smooth line from nose to peduncle (base of caudal fin).

I know it happens but can't find out why but he looks to be pineconing but he's far from bloated? I'm wondering if he doesn't have some sort of parasite? Is his poop normal? Not stringy; not white or a color other than his food?

Can you get a clear photo from above and point out the pineconing?

He looks like that all the time. His stomach is still fairly bloated, which isn’t helping that difference look any better. His poop is brown and occasionally stringy. Also, are you sure I should feed him that much? It seems like a lot, and like it might make him bloat more. He’s pineconing a little bit more. I do have him on kanaplex though and I’m probably going to do an Epsom salt bath

 

[The Fish expert]

Dropsy?

 

[ambrosiaandmore]

Dropsy?

Yeah I’m pretty sure he has it. The pineconing is not as obvious as other cases I’ve seen, but it’s definitely there and accompanied by a bloated stomach

 

[YogisMom]

He looks like that all the time. His stomach is still fairly bloated, which isn’t helping that difference look any better. His poop is brown and occasionally stringy. Also, are you sure I should feed him that much? It seems like a lot, and like it might make him bloat more. He’s pineconing a little bit more. I do have him on kanaplex though and I’m probably going to do an Epsom salt bath

As recommended I would not feed any more freeze dried because this will cause severe bloat.

I would add those Indian almond leaves. They should not cause an ammonia spike. I would stop the Ammonia Remover moving forward as well in his main tank as well. There’s no need to add chemicals it to your tank to remove ammonia or nitrites. You’re better off doing a large water change and adding a product called Prime by Seachem to detoxify it.

What you can do is prepare a tea for him with your Indian almond leaves. Simply boil up some conditioned water and add 5-6 big leaves. Allow it to boil until it is the color of bourbon - so a deep burgundy brown (this takes some time). Once you’ve boiled it, put in jars or any glass container (I use mason jars) and allow it to cool. You can store it in your refrigerator. Allow a jar to cool to tank temp. Add this directly to his tank until the tank water reaches a dark tan/brown color. There’s no need to remove the medicated water from his tank to do this. If you are super concerned that the leaves are causing an ammonia spike, testing the tea with your test kit is the perfect time to do this.

A quicker alternative is to buy some plain organic Roobios tea from your supermarket. Make sure it’s plain. Put a tea bag directly into his tank and that will provide him with tannins.

Also, I feed my male betta 5-6 pellets 3 times a day. It’s perfectly fine to give him 3-4 3 times a day. If he’ll eat for you. The Epsom salt bath is a great idea too.

For now, II would continue with the Kanaplex and keep us posted. Could you also attach a few pics of him today from all angles - looking down and to the side. I’d like to see what you see as bloat. Thanks so much.

 

[YogisMom]

Oh and one more thing, make sure to remove any uneaten pellets or frozen food from his tank if he refuses it or missed some. It will mold and could cause an ammonia spike. Another reason I don’t care for flake or freeze dried foods is that they are very hard to remove once they drop.
Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[ambrosiaandmore]

As recommended I would not feed any more freeze dried because this will cause severe bloat.

I would add those Indian almond leaves. They should not cause an ammonia spike. I would stop the Ammonia Remover moving forward as well in his main tank as well. There’s no need to add chemicals it to your tank to remove ammonia or nitrites. You’re better off doing a large water change and adding a product called Prime by Seachem to detoxify it.

What you can do is prepare a tea for him with your Indian almond leaves. Simply boil up some conditioned water and add 5-6 big leaves. Allow it to boil until it is the color of bourbon - so a deep burgundy brown (this takes some time). Once you’ve boiled it, put in jars or any glass container (I use mason jars) and allow it to cool. You can store it in your refrigerator. Allow a jar to cool to tank temp. Add this directly to his tank until the tank water reaches a dark tan/brown color. There’s no need to remove the medicated water from his tank to do this. If you are super concerned that the leaves are causing an ammonia spike, testing the tea with your test kit is the perfect time to do this.

A quicker alternative is to buy some plain organic Roobios tea from your supermarket. Make sure it’s plain. Put a tea bag directly into his tank and that will provide him with tannins.

Also, I feed my male betta 5-6 pellets 3 times a day. It’s perfectly fine to give him 3-4 3 times a day. If he’ll eat for you. The Epsom salt bath is a great idea too.

For now, II would continue with the Kanaplex and keep us posted. Could you also attach a few pics of him today from all angles - looking down and to the side. I’d like to see what you see as bloat. Thanks so much.

Thank you so much for all this great advice!! You’re really helping me out. Sorry for the blurry pictures, he does not want to sit still
*his pineconing is down a bit today, so it’s hard to see in the pics

 

[ambrosiaandmore]

As recommended I would not feed any more freeze dried because this will cause severe bloat.

I would add those Indian almond leaves. They should not cause an ammonia spike. I would stop the Ammonia Remover moving forward as well in his main tank as well. There’s no need to add chemicals it to your tank to remove ammonia or nitrites. You’re better off doing a large water change and adding a product called Prime by Seachem to detoxify it.

What you can do is prepare a tea for him with your Indian almond leaves. Simply boil up some conditioned water and add 5-6 big leaves. Allow it to boil until it is the color of bourbon - so a deep burgundy brown (this takes some time). Once you’ve boiled it, put in jars or any glass container (I use mason jars) and allow it to cool. You can store it in your refrigerator. Allow a jar to cool to tank temp. Add this directly to his tank until the tank water reaches a dark tan/brown color. There’s no need to remove the medicated water from his tank to do this. If you are super concerned that the leaves are causing an ammonia spike, testing the tea with your test kit is the perfect time to do this.

A quicker alternative is to buy some plain organic Roobios tea from your supermarket. Make sure it’s plain. Put a tea bag directly into his tank and that will provide him with tannins.

Also, I feed my male betta 5-6 pellets 3 times a day. It’s perfectly fine to give him 3-4 3 times a day. If he’ll eat for you. The Epsom salt bath is a great idea too.

For now, II would continue with the Kanaplex and keep us posted. Could you also attach a few pics of him today from all angles - looking down and to the side. I’d like to see what you see as bloat. Thanks so much.

Should I use Seachem Prime at the same time as my regular dechlorinator? I’ve been seeing that it only stays active for 24-48 hours after use