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Let's Talk: What is a Dragon Scale?

68K views 57 replies 17 participants last post by  aselvarial  
#1 ·
Another in my little series of "Let's Talk" threads, I might just make it a thing! But since there are no real good threads describing what a Dragon Scale is, I was requested to put the information here so people can have a reference to what is and what is not a Dragon Scale betta.

This is one of my favorite things to explain since I get to use pretty pictures!!

Okay, so the term dragonscale comes from the armor that used to be used way back when. It was called "dragon scale" because it mimicked what we believe dragon scales would look like. It was used for greater flexibility in the armor as the scales over lap each other but still provide enough room to maneuver comfortably for the wearer. These are dragon scale armwarmers, obviously not real armor but it gives a good idea of what the armor would have looked like. See how the scales overlap and look very thick and protective? Just like a dragon! Notice how it looks like...dragon scales!


So in the Betta world, these are fish with very thick scales, they can be almost any color not just metallic (Copper) although this is where they originated from. Originally it was said that a breeder crossed a Red Copper PK and a wild Betta spp. Mahachai to start the line of Dragons. Dragon scaling wasn't the intent of the spawn but it was the partial result, through line breeding they were able to strengthen the Dragon scales and bring them out to the full color and thickness they are today. There was some difficulty but they finally achieved it, it was publicly announced December 2004*

This boy here would be called a Red Dragon as his fins and under coat/color are red and his thick scaling on top is white. Most of the time when you see a Yellow Dragon or an Orange Dragon they are describing a fish with Yellow fins and white scales or Orange fins and white scales. But just notice how thick those white scales look on this boy, those are his "dragon" scales, they look like the gloves I posted above! What a coincidence!


Also that red stripe going up his back is called a Skunk Stripe, common on Dragon Scales, sometimes it will fill in as they get older. Here is one of my boy's; Aero who used to have a partial skunk stripe but it filled in as he aged!


You can see in this picture he still hasn't quite filled in his skunk stripe but this was a few months ago and it has been filled in since this picture!


Sometimes it can be hard to distinguish what is a dragon and what isn't a dragon when you aren't being told. Here is a Salamander coloration who is not a dragon, his scales look like it's on the thick side but he is still not a dragon. He may have some dragon genes in him since his scales are on the thicker side on the back half of his body but because the scaling does not extend to his face, he would not be considered a Dragon Scale.


Another note with dragon's, their scales will cover all the way up to their face as well where this Salamander boy up there did not. Sometimes when you get a fish that is only half Dragon (only one parent was a dragon and the other a normal scaled type) or partial dragon, the face isn't fully covered as the first boy and my boy are. You can see it here in one of my late girl's; Jewel


You can see it better here were Lady Deathstrike was flaring at her sister Jewel, both were partial dragons. Note the "holes" in the thicker scales where you can see the under color peaking through.


And remember when I was talking about the Skunk Stripe? Well when the face is fully filled in, it is called a Full Mask because...well that's what it is! lol Here is an example of a Red Dragon:


Also, you want to be careful if you ever buy Full Mask Dragon's, be sure that their eyes are clear like the above boy's. You could end up with a blind Betta because with Dragons sometimes their scales keep growing and they end up growing over their eyes, rendering them blind. Sometimes it only happens to one side and sometimes both. Steer clear from Dragons labeled as: Snake eyes, Dragon eyes, or Diamond eyes, those are the ones that will have scaling already starting to grow over the eyes so the seller tries to make them look appealing by labeling them something fancy to lure people in.

Here is an example of a Dragon Betta that would eventually scale over his eyes and become blind.


And here is one that is already scaled over:


**Note** pictures do not belong to me except of Aero, Jewel and Lady. Pictures were found from google, I do not own the rights.

*Information at starred point was taken from this site: http://www.bettaterritory.nl/BT-AABDragons.htm

Feel free to ask any questions or add information to this that you have found.
 
#3 ·
Glad to help! And yeah, it is sad this happens. I don't know if it's just me but it seems like the scaling over the eyes have reduced a little in the past year, again this could just be me though. Or at least, people on this forum don't seem to be getting Dragon Bettas that scale over or are already scaling over lately since we know more of what to look for and what to watch out for now.
 
#4 ·
Very helpful! Thanks for doing this!
 
#6 ·
Yay! I will do! I do have a few more topics I'd like to cover, the big one being the PetCo Baby Care Thread since I get questions on that all the time! I can make a "sexing baby Betta's" another one as well. I'll certainly take suggestions if people want to see more, I mean, I won't post something I don't quite know about until I educate myself of course but I love that people like these threads and I think they were needed too ^_^

Thanks all for the support!
 
#8 ·
I hear you Sathori! I was at one of my LFS's the other day and they had some Dragon VT's that were bicolor blue and yellow and I was pretty sure I was drooling into their bowls XD
 
#18 ·
Haha!! I used 2 hide the ones I like 2... But the staff at my LFS all know I will most likely come back for them now, and lock them in the office, away from prying eyes, lol!! I'm in the same boat as u w/ multiple tanks... And my mother-in-law is starting to complain about all the fish! I'm so glad I'm not the only betta lover that's passion defies all reason :p! That's y I love this forum so much... Everyone here shares the same love for bettas as me!
 
#10 ·
lol yeah, I've got eight tanks running at the moment although I'm attempting to condense them at my mom's house since my dad is moving out and we are as well so I'll just be going back to mom's. But yeah....I have lots of fish and couldn't imagine living in a small apartment with this many tanks! lol
 
#11 ·
I eventually made one of the couch benches, that we bought from Ikea, into my "fish table" xD It's currently holding my 10gal with two 3gals on each side of the 10. Then I have Natsu in his 1.5gal right beside the couch bench on a small coffee table.
My newest boy, Mystogan, is in a 2gal bowl in the bedroom, which is off limits to my cat when I'm not in there. He was getting scared senseless by my cat, who seems attracted to his flashy colours. To me, it doesn't look like I have a lot, but they do take up space lol

I do have a 3 gallon still in its box, I'm saving that one for an elephant ear, if I ever find one T-T
 
#12 · (Edited)
very great introduction lilnaugrim!
one thing that I would add in is the genetics aspect of dragons, and which layer of skin the dragon scale occurs over.

dragon scaling occurs on the top and most superficial layer (blue) of the betta. recall the layers of a betta's color: (inner) cellophane/red/black/blue (top)

thus, the scaling can only occur wherever blue (or its variations) is present. this is also why there is no such thing as a true metallic black, or a metallic red. in other words, that red, copper, black dragon you're seeing is actually a blue betta with a yellow/red/black wash.
white, green/turq, royal blue, steel blue, and copper, are all variants of the blue layer and therefore these colors are what you will find dragons in.

use the info on breeding blue bettas to help you determine what color your metallics will be in.
 
#13 ·
Thank you for that amphirion! Knew I would forget something ^_^

Are you talking about my girl Lady Deathstrike or the first boy I had posted?

That is also why there is no such thing as a true Blue Dragon as well, the color layering does not allow for blue fins and another color to be on top since blue IS the top layer, the fish would come out all blue or some slight variation thereof.
 
#14 ·
Actually lilnaugrim, I believe my statement applies to every single betta you shared except for the salamander. The red dragon has metallic white and red fins right? Without the dragon scale, it would have been a milky opaque or copper betta with a red wash on its fins. White is a mutation residing in the blue layer. Same thing with lady death strike, she could be a steel blue or copper betta without the dragon scale gene. You noted that the shiny layer is thicker, but notice which layers aren't: black and red. :)

I hate to correct you with concern to blues, but if you recall, the marble gene can cause different manifestations of blue to appear on the same fish. I've seen quite a few bettas on aquabid that sport turquoise, royal blue, and white (not cello) on their bodies. Note in all instances though that the dragon scale affects all these colors. Or maybe I'm not understanding you correctly? You're right that the blue layer is the last and no other color can be placed on top of that.
 
#15 ·
Previously you had said: "...that red, copper, black dragon you're seeing is actually a blue betta with a yellow/red/black wash..." which seemed to imply you were looking at a certain fish, I was asking which one you were looking at or if you were just talking in general?

And I don't mean all Blue Dragons, I mean the ones that are labeled such as Yellow Dragon, Black Dragon, etc. their color of having, say it was a Black Dragon, black on the bottom and the thick white dragon scaling on top. I was talking of the coloration name itself, not that there can't be blue dragon scales in general but there can't be a Blue Dragon that has blue fins and the white dragon scaling on top as a Black Dragon would or a Red Dragon, Orange Dragon, etc., because blue would be on top and it would even trump the variation of white if I am understanding correctly. Does that make more sense now or am I digging a deeper hole for myself? lol
 
#17 ·
Okay! Phew, thought I was going crazy for a moment! Hmm, if white and blue operate on the same layer, why can't we breed Blue Dragon's? Or do they not operate equally and blue is just more dominant than white, which is what I suspect but I don't know for sure? Or perhaps we've tried but none have been successful as of yet?
 
#20 ·
I suspect it has to do with the fact that we've never seen multicolored blues like a steel blue body and royal blue/turquoise fins. The fact that there is only one gene responsible for blue yields only one type of color. The marble gene might operate similar to a calico cat though the genes activate/deactivate over a given period of time. Royal blue is heterozygous dominant which is how can find metallic bettas with white, turquoise/green, and royal blue all on the same body. In contrast, there's steel blue, which I believe is recessive so you won't get variance in blues there.

There is a possibility of creating real blue dragons in theory, but it cannot be done the traditional way via breeding. This alternate method to achieve blue dragons will most likely require the creation of chimeras.
 
#22 ·
Definitely not uncommon but it's all with genetics. I've had multiple dragon scales and none of them have or had gotten scaling over their eyes. Sometimes you can look for a DS that has very clean eyes like that Red Dragon I posted on the first page, he has very clean eyes, no scaling has yet to creep into his eyes whereas on this boy, he's already scaled over however there has been some debate on him since some believe he's fully blind while others (I) believe he's only partially blind since he seems to react to the fish on the sides of him in the video.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettashmp&1395057705

The reason I say he's not fully blind yet other than him reacting to the other fish is that you can still see his pupil, amphirion correct me if I'm wrong, but generally when scaling goes over the eye it is opaque rather than transparent as his is. You can see Opaque scaling in the first post.
 
#24 ·
I don't think he can actually see, but I think he maybe able to see shadows like if you were to hold a very thin piece of white paper up in front of your eyes, you might be able to make out shapes of dark objects but not really be able to actually see them.
 
#28 ·
That boy is clear so far. What you are seeing in his eyes are just is regular pigment like our irises, they also have colored eyes and sometimes it's more than others. I've seen Bettas with totally black eyes and others with heterochromia eyes as well. He's good so far but just be prepared for later in his life if you do buy him, he may become blind or partially blind.

As I was saying with Dragons, it all depends on their genetics for how fast their scales will grow and if they will get it over their eyes. Partial Dragons are much less likely to have scaling grow over their eyes since they don't have that much Dragon scaling in the first place and likewise with fully scaled Dragons, they definitely have more of a chance for becoming blind. Some of it is luck of the draw while others you can tell, obviously that AB boy I posted is or will become fully blind very shortly but the boy you posted kevonn, may not become blind for quite a while *shrug* it's all genetics and good guesses.
 
#26 ·
I have 3 dragon scale boys, one from the local LFS, one from Petco (Princess George) and one was a present from a friend. All 3 have scales growing over their eyes to some extent, all 3 did not have scales near the eyes at all when they were purchased but the scales continued spreading and growing as they got older and all 3 will eventually be completely blind. Not a very good track record with dragonscales so I won't have any more dragonscale bettas.
 
#30 ·
That's good! Yeah, let us know about his parents if the seller responds to that and hopefully get pictures from him too, that would be helpful. He's a beautiful boy for sure! Good luck with him if you get him!! :-D
 
#34 ·
She is quite beautiful, I love when the tail lays flat like that rather than ruffly like the Rosetail makes them ^_^ Oh, I didn't want one but thank you, lol I have no more room for more!
 
#35 ·
Correction

Alright, I've got to make a very large correction here and I apologize for spreading misinformation once more.

It seems that what I thought was a Dragon scale is actually very different than previously thought. Here's what I've learned thus far.

Copper is a trait not a coloration so you still have your color layers; yellow, black, red and blue. Copper tends to sit on top of the blue layer or mix in with it. Copper originally came from wilds as I said before, that part is correct. As the scales thickened breeders selectively bred "Dragons" which is solely a fish that has solid colored fins and white thick scales. So the term Dragon Scale is used to describe a yellow finned fish with white scales. This, you've all seen on AquaBid or Ebay used many times. It is NOT to describe a fish with thick scales as I previously thought.

So what is a thick scaled fish and what are they called? Well, I can now answer that too! So remember Copper? The trait produces thick scales that we've selectively bred over the ages, originally it was more like iridescence where it shows up on top of the fish just creating a nice sheen over the fish. As we bred the fish with more and more copper the scales became thicker and covered more of the fish. And then we bred the Copper trait into other fish.

Now remember the Blue layer is the top layer? Well there are three different kinds of blues; Royal (deep color almost purple), Steele (a lighter blue but more like slate rather than navy) and Turquoise (mixture of Royal and Steele which makes the iridescence shine and have different hues). Turquoise is the combination of colors so this creates almost sublayers if you follow me, of the blue so it can look dark in some areas and lighter in others to the green color that most of you know. Turquoise is the easiest as far as I know, to take on the Copper trait of thicker scales which is why so many of our fish that are Turquoise have thicker scales like my boy Aero. So he would be known as a Turquoise Metallic fish not a Turquoise Dragon. You can write it as Turquoise Copper but Metallic makes more sense...at least it does to me since it's not specifically Copper but a mixture.

Naturally the Copper comes with a red wash on the fish but with selective breeding we've bred that out in some fish and so they go the other way where they have a yellow wash or just are in between and are solid coppers. This is why I always had trouble distinguishing between what I thought was the normal Copper coloration and a Copper "Dragon" with thick scales. All coppers have thick scales regardless, although some have reduced thickness as they've been bred with normal scaled Bettas.

Now Full Mask is a completely different trait and does not necessarily follow the Copper Trait. This is also why not all Coppers have the Full Mask and some do; it's just another one of those traits. However, not to my knowledge, can a Betta be a Full Mask without having the Copper Trait as a base.

So to reiterate; for those thicker scaled blue Bettas they would be Blue (insert specific color) Metallic coloration and Dragon Scales are purely fish that have white scales and solid colored fins although there are "fancies" which are not solid colored fins but multi color and as long as the scales are white and thick they can be classified as a Dragon.
 
#36 ·
I'm wondering if someone can help me figure out if this is eye scaling or if Jishin just has sectoral heterochromia? I got him on the 15th of this month and I thought his eyes were just black, but thinking back I never really looked that hard. I noticed the color in his eyes a few days ago and can't tell if it's in the iris or forming over the eye.

This is the best picture I could get since he's so zippy
 

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