[fishgeek]

This disease is no longer the "mystery disease". It has already been identified earlier in the thread as a strain of mycobacteria (often referred to as "fish TB" though fish can't get TB, mycobacteria causes it). When people refer to "fish TB" they're generally talking about the bacteria that causes spinal deformities. This is a different strain.

To reply to an earlier comment you had made, mycobacteria will NOT die if it is left to sit out for a long period of time. Bleach will not kill it (Although I have heard that if you bleach a tank and let it sit out in sunlight, it will work). Medical grade disinfectants are used to kill it, meaning that you won't find anything in walmart strong enough. If you've ever heard of Barbicide, used by cosmetologists to disinfect combs and hair clips and stuff, some people use it to disinfect for mycobacteria. Mycobacteria has a thick, waxy protective coating that makes it incredibly hard to kill.

I just had a blue veil tail male die on me the beginning of this week from this disease. I had only had him for about 6 days, he came from liveaquaria. I put him in a 6 gallon tank with a few african dwarf frogs and a snail. He got these symptoms very suddenly a few days after he arrived; I fed him in the morning, and when I went to feed him that evening most of his tail was that charcoal color and it was already spreading to his body. I assumed it was fin rot. He died within 36 hours.

Now my ADFs have been dying off. Pulled 2 dead out of the tank this morning, with what appeared to be white patches on their bodies. 2 more have white, fluffy looking patches on their front legs. I'm wondering if this is the same disease affecting the frogs...

But what I'm most concerned about, and my biggest question is, what should I do with my tank? if I add another fish to the tank in a few weeks, would it contract this disease from the tank itself?

 

[Sena Hansler]

Your frogs sound like columnaris to me, personally.

I will repeat again for this IF caught soon enough you might be able to fight it off. I used KANAPLEX (something I now suggest everyone gets as you usually have to order it). Shadow did pull through but his organs failed soon after - but at least I knew it WAS a possibility to fight it off. I bought him for the sole purpose to monitor every day, logged it every day, and caught it right before it hit.

Now I have not encountered the disease recently, and it may or may not have changed from what I encountered five times over. I've even fought off a weird strong strain of columnaris! :roll: seems like diseases for fish are getting stronger every year.

Anyways, you may want to quarantine the frogs individually, and medicate each. This stops the columnaris from bouncing around. Keep the heat about 76, as fungu loves it warmer - we don't want that!! Maracyn (or maracyn 2) works well on columnaris but again unsure for doses for frogs as they are different from fish. Don't get another fish until it is resolved.

As for the tank, break it down. I toss away substrate when encountering a vicious virus/disease, anything porous (fabric plants) are tossed away, other ornaments and the tank itself can be bleached and left to sit. Please make sure to super rinse it out! Acrylic tanks I just toss out... But glass tanks are usually fine.

To me everyone seems to encounter different strengths of the strain. Inhave reused my tanks after breaking them down and never had an issue. The breakdown time total was 48 hours for me since I let stuff sit quite a while, and usually "rinse and repeat".

Personally I just avoid blues now. It seems to be from one supplier to one store, but it is a wholesaler so I was unable to track it back.

 

[fishgeek]

before I saw this thread I was thinking the frogs had columnaris. But the betta who was housed with them for only a few days most definitely had mycobacteria, so I was wondering if the frogs contracted it, but it just looked different. I am treating them right now with aquarium salt and melafix (since there's no longer a betta in the tank). I was going to continue that for a week to see if it helps.

I'm most worried about the snail, though. I don't think that snails can contract the disease, but could he be carrying it? when I break down the tank to sanitize it, what will happen to the snail? From everything I have read, they recommend all affected fish be euthanized, even if they survive the disease, because they are carriers. It's my favorite snail

 

[Sena Hansler]

Not sure on the snail but I do know they dislike salt and a lot of meds!

I would not have euthanized Shadow, that is just stupid. He would have had his own tank, like he did, and his own supplies, like he did... I had 5 different water pails, one was just for him, as was a net, food, etc. Just don't breed, obviously. Just because a fish is a carrier, does not mean all the strains call for killing them. You will also have to take care not to let yourself get sick as the result of fish to human disease transfer is most unknown, or iffy at best.

If you want, for the snail, maybe you should keep the fella in his own small tank? Just know not to have anything used between his tank and another tank at all ever. Just in case!

 

[MattsBettas]

Sena, honestly, I don't think Shadow ever beat the myco, and rather went into relapse a week later... Which happened to some of coppermoon's fish as well.

Mycobacteria must be treated as though it is highly contagious and untreatable.

 

[Sena Hansler]

I'm done on this thread. Have fun.

 

[Helena1]

Hi!

Could this be it? (please tell me it isn't). He was fine last night and this morning he was like this.

 

[fishgeek]

that looks like the exact same discoloring my fish had, except he had much, much more of it (almost his whole tail) seemingly overnight. Since it's a smaller spot it *might* be fin rot...but that coloring is very disconcerting. If it rapidly spreads within the next 24 hours...start planning how you will sanitize that tank.

 

[Helena1]

I went to the store to show them pictures of my fish and explain how his condition has deteriorated overnight. The guy said it's probably a bacterial infection and gave me tetracycline.

Now, the part of my fish's fin that was ''silver'' is now dark brown-black. Part of his face is white. I think part of the fin has disappeared. His colors are dull and very dark. He's not bright blue anymore. His pelvic fins are also dark, almost black (they were red)

He's still eating but it took a couple of tries before he ate the pellets ( he would eat them then''spit'' them), he's swimming around in the tank - he's now in a small tank with tetracycline, for 3 days at least.

If they are right, he should get better soon. If not....

I do not know if fin rot can be cured with tetracycline, so if it's fin rot and not a bacterial infection...I don't know...

 

[fishgeek]

doesn't sound like fin rot. Hopefully the medication works...

 

[Helena1]

pictures of him, tonight...

I really hope tetracycline will cure my poor fish...

 

[Saphira101]

Oh, poor baby.

Good luck.

 

[LittleBlueFishlets]

Helena1 - I would call around and see if you can find a petstore that carries Kanaplex (kanamycin). Petsmart and Petco don't carry it, but some local stores might. If you can't get it locally, you can purchase it online - but if you do this, I recommend overnight shipping (if you can afford it).

Also, take precautions for yourself. Wash your hands well after working with him. If you have other fish, make sure his equipment doesn't come in contact with them.

I hope he makes it!.... But... if he doesn't, please put his body into a plastic bag. Do not touch him. Most aquatic diseases don't affect people, but it's better not to take a chance. And then ask us about disinfection techniques.

Again, I hope he makes it. Good luck....

 

[Helena1]

I tried. But it's getting worse

Thank you all for your advice

I couldn't find Kanaplex in local pet stores, even ''specialized'' fish stores.:-( Trying to find it online.

I am now worried about my own health because I have 4 or 5 scratches on my hands and I didn't use gloves yesterday :shock::shock::shock:--- I wanted to remove all the plants, rocks and gravel out of his aquarium to wash them and my hands were in the water for like 20 minutes!! I ended up putting everything back in the tank,not knowing what product to use.
?? Will I be able to use the tank if I want to buy another fish???? I am reading an article right now and they are saying that you have to get rid of the tank, plants, gravel, filter, etc, because the disease is highly contagious and there is no cleaner that can get rid of this disease, even bleach can't.

About my fish:

This morning, the ''silver'' patch on his fin is now covering part of his belly. I can see it's slowly eating him. It's like the flesh-eating disease.

He seems to be having some difficulties swimming. His entire body his dark grey, except for his lower jaw, which is white/grey, and the silver patch on his fin and belly.

The part of his fin that was covered with this silver thing yesterday is now brown/black.

He did eat this morning, but not much and he's having trouble swallowing I think. He could not eat pellets, so I gave him flakes and he took a few bites then turned away.

I am convinced that this is the same disease. It is sad to know that he is suffering and there is nothing I ca do to help him.

If you have any suggestions on how I can help him (is there some kind of pain medecine I could give him for his last few hours/days??!)
how I can clean the tank and what to do so I don't get sick, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you all for your help.

I hope next time I am posting a picture on this forum, it's a picture of a healthy, happy fish. Maybe Edward-Henry the Second.

 

[fishgeek]

Definitely get some gloves. Toss everything -rocks, plants, gravel, decor, nets, anything used in that tank. I sanitized my tank using a strong bleach solution. I had a 6.6 gallon, basically I poured a whole bottle of bleach in it, then filled it up with water. Then I turned on the filter and let it cycle the bleach for 30 minutes - 1 hour. Then I thoroughly rinsed everything, and ran warm water (with a ton of water conditioner) through it for another 30 mins. After, you can use rubbing alcohol to further disinfect, but I did not as there was a very strong bleach smell and I was concerned about the fumes mixing. Chemicals are scary. I feel confident my tank is fine, but I will be re-selling it because my next fish is coming from a breeder; I plan on breeding and I don't want even the smallest risk. As for the fish...it sounds really, really bad. If I were to ever see this again with my fish, I would probably try to euthanize to end the pain.

 

[Helena1]

It's over

I have decided to euthanize my poor fish because I know he was suffering.
My boyfriend did it, with ice I think. I am very sad, I loved him very much and seeing him suffer like this was hard.

I will throw everything away and clean the tank. But are you sure that I can use my tank again??!!! I was thinking of getting another betta, but I don't want him to get sick...:-(

 

[MattsBettas]

Is the tank glass or plastic?

Bleach will not kill this. You need an anti TB disinfectant, like 70%+ alcohol or hospital grade Lysol.

 

[Helena1]

disinfecting tank after Fish TB

it's a 10 gallon glass tank
I have a filter and heater.

I need a new net, new plants, new rocks, new substrate, but can I clean and use the tank, filter and heater??? I would like to have another betta...

And if so, what is the best way to disinfect everything?

 

[ReeseInPieces]

Can someone help out? Saw this post and immediately thought about this thread, the lesions not to sure about but the colouring.
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=251873

 

[LittleBlueFishlets]

Helena1 - I'm sorry for your loss.....

You should be able to clean the tank and heater. You may be able to clean the hard plastic parts of the filter. I would throw out the net, silk plants, rocks and gravel.

Here is some disinfection info:

1) Hot water is effective at killing Mycobacteria. The water must be kept at 65C (149F), or higher, for at LEAST 30 min. (1)
2) Soaking in alcohol (such as rubbing/isopropyl alcohol) for several hours kills it.
3) UV light (found in sunlight) kills it. (1), (2)
4) Bleach does not kill it, but can help remove any organic material or biofilms on hard surfaces (such as the tank, heater, filter casing).

There is an excellent write-up about disinfection protocols in this article. (See page 8): Mycobacterial Infections of Fish.

Wear gloves at all times. Nitrile is a good, and inexpensive, option. The gloves will protect you from both bacteria AND from the cleaning agents.

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Sources:
(1) MYCOBACTERIUM TUBERCULOSIS COMPLEX - PATHOGEN SAFETY DATA SHEET
(2) MYCOBACTERIUM SPP. - PATHOGEN SAFETY DATA SHEET
(3) Mycobacterial Infections of Fish